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	<title>Comments on: The Cave and the Arrow:  Chiron Beyond The Wound (Part Two)</title>
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	<description>Astrology with Dawn Bodrogi</description>
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		<title>By: Dawn Bodrogi</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2997</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Bodrogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2997</guid>
		<description>I take a very practical view on the ego.  We need our egos.  We need them like we need our cars--we have to get around in the world somehow.  A healthy ego is a productive, positive, constructive thing.  We do work we are passionate about.  Our inner self is reflected in the outer life when all is in balance.  It&#039;s when the ego goes out of whack that we get into trouble.

The Buddhists use the example of the ocean and the wave.  We must be both, and be aware of being both--the ocean must express itself in the wave as it comes to shore, but the wave must remember that it is merely an expression of a greater source.  The wave is merely the illusion of separation from the Source. Some of us are great, powerful waves and some of us are warm, gentle ones, but we are all expressions of a greater power.  When we are truly connected to our spiritual selves and our egos are intact, we become the ultimate expression of that power.  Chiron, ultimately, gives itself up to that greater power--it chooses the greater over the lesser.  The ego, ultimately, is transformed by Chiron&#039;s sacrifice and becomes a vehicle for the greater good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take a very practical view on the ego.  We need our egos.  We need them like we need our cars&#8211;we have to get around in the world somehow.  A healthy ego is a productive, positive, constructive thing.  We do work we are passionate about.  Our inner self is reflected in the outer life when all is in balance.  It&#8217;s when the ego goes out of whack that we get into trouble.</p>
<p>The Buddhists use the example of the ocean and the wave.  We must be both, and be aware of being both&#8211;the ocean must express itself in the wave as it comes to shore, but the wave must remember that it is merely an expression of a greater source.  The wave is merely the illusion of separation from the Source. Some of us are great, powerful waves and some of us are warm, gentle ones, but we are all expressions of a greater power.  When we are truly connected to our spiritual selves and our egos are intact, we become the ultimate expression of that power.  Chiron, ultimately, gives itself up to that greater power&#8211;it chooses the greater over the lesser.  The ego, ultimately, is transformed by Chiron&#8217;s sacrifice and becomes a vehicle for the greater good.</p>
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		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2986</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2986</guid>
		<description>Oh Dear God

How often I keep coming back to this article so that what  I have absorbed doesn&#039;t slip away..
Ego can take over so subtly sometimes. It isn&#039;t human&#039;s mistake anyway. The Sun&#039;s gravity is enormous in our solar system. Our psyche only reflects that.

I read a beautiful line once &quot; Pride rears it&#039;s head in the most unsuspecting of circumstances. Some are proud because they are proud, some are proud because they aren&#039;t.&quot;
True in the case of Chiron contacting personal planets I suppose.

So what is the healthiest way to deal with ego? It surely isn&#039;t non-existent even among the best of us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Dear God</p>
<p>How often I keep coming back to this article so that what  I have absorbed doesn&#8217;t slip away..<br />
Ego can take over so subtly sometimes. It isn&#8217;t human&#8217;s mistake anyway. The Sun&#8217;s gravity is enormous in our solar system. Our psyche only reflects that.</p>
<p>I read a beautiful line once &#8221; Pride rears it&#8217;s head in the most unsuspecting of circumstances. Some are proud because they are proud, some are proud because they aren&#8217;t.&#8221;<br />
True in the case of Chiron contacting personal planets I suppose.</p>
<p>So what is the healthiest way to deal with ego? It surely isn&#8217;t non-existent even among the best of us?</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Bodrogi</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2982</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Bodrogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2982</guid>
		<description>Hi Nobody.  I&#039;m glad you enjoy the comments.  I try to tackle everything with even-tempered good nature, but you will see that I don&#039;t always succeed.  I can be snarky, and I can be rather ruthless, verbally and intellectually.  I blame the third house Saturn/Vesta connection.  I try to keep in mind, always, that I&#039;m here to teach, and my message is not going to get across if I use my words as weapons and not tools.

I don&#039;t know if astrologers hide their charts.  Some have them posted up for all to see.  I&#039;m not suppressing my chart to hide the astrology.  I know a number of people in the tech world and they tell me that you should never post personal details on the Internet, including your birth date, for reasons of privacy.  That&#039;s why you don&#039;t see my chart up here.  

But I do have a very strong Mercury.  I&#039;m a Virgo with Virgo rising.  Mercury is the chart ruler, the South Node ruler, the dispositor of a Sun/Jupiter conjunction in the 12th, and rules two angles.  It&#039;s in Libra in the first house.  I think that explains a lot, especially when you tie it into the third house action.  And the fact that it sextiles my Moon/Uranus conjunction in the 11th.  As Hamlet said, &quot;Words, words, words...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nobody.  I&#8217;m glad you enjoy the comments.  I try to tackle everything with even-tempered good nature, but you will see that I don&#8217;t always succeed.  I can be snarky, and I can be rather ruthless, verbally and intellectually.  I blame the third house Saturn/Vesta connection.  I try to keep in mind, always, that I&#8217;m here to teach, and my message is not going to get across if I use my words as weapons and not tools.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if astrologers hide their charts.  Some have them posted up for all to see.  I&#8217;m not suppressing my chart to hide the astrology.  I know a number of people in the tech world and they tell me that you should never post personal details on the Internet, including your birth date, for reasons of privacy.  That&#8217;s why you don&#8217;t see my chart up here.  </p>
<p>But I do have a very strong Mercury.  I&#8217;m a Virgo with Virgo rising.  Mercury is the chart ruler, the South Node ruler, the dispositor of a Sun/Jupiter conjunction in the 12th, and rules two angles.  It&#8217;s in Libra in the first house.  I think that explains a lot, especially when you tie it into the third house action.  And the fact that it sextiles my Moon/Uranus conjunction in the 11th.  As Hamlet said, &#8220;Words, words, words&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nobody</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2979</link>
		<dc:creator>Nobody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2979</guid>
		<description>Dear Dawn

I just want to say I learn as much from your comment sections as from the actual post itself in almost ALL your articles. I read your comment sections voraciously :P

And you write and respond so impersonally, I notice it everywhere ( no sign of exhaustion, personal reactions etc.), it really is an art to be learnt from you (Sigh..I wish I knew the sign and aspects of your Mercury -_- why do astrologers hide their charts?)

Sorry if this was out of place and foot in the mouth type.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dawn</p>
<p>I just want to say I learn as much from your comment sections as from the actual post itself in almost ALL your articles. I read your comment sections voraciously <img src='http://theinnerwheel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And you write and respond so impersonally, I notice it everywhere ( no sign of exhaustion, personal reactions etc.), it really is an art to be learnt from you (Sigh..I wish I knew the sign and aspects of your Mercury -_- why do astrologers hide their charts?)</p>
<p>Sorry if this was out of place and foot in the mouth type.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dawn. A good present is to hear some reassuring words that I know takes time to write. 

My goal is to find an equal - to take part in, not &quot;be&quot; my life. I do sorta know my problems...just often the baggage is tough to get around. Who, in their right minds, would want to date my resume? Yet, I am more than those events. But it will take time...time to work on myself at my half-Uranus return. I think I can be anything...and have had a taste of what I can really accomplish, once. Thanks and i&#039;ll pay heed to your advice on equals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dawn. A good present is to hear some reassuring words that I know takes time to write. </p>
<p>My goal is to find an equal &#8211; to take part in, not &#8220;be&#8221; my life. I do sorta know my problems&#8230;just often the baggage is tough to get around. Who, in their right minds, would want to date my resume? Yet, I am more than those events. But it will take time&#8230;time to work on myself at my half-Uranus return. I think I can be anything&#8230;and have had a taste of what I can really accomplish, once. Thanks and i&#8217;ll pay heed to your advice on equals.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Bodrogi</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2875</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Bodrogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2012 21:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2875</guid>
		<description>Thank you for being so honest.  Your story is a very good example of the way Chiron works in the chart.  However, I suspect that Chiron is only part of the story, and at least some of the answers would lie in an analysis of the entire chart.  It seems clear, just from your short description, that you are not choosing partners who are your equals, which is a real problem with Chiron in relationships.  Chiron is trying to make you aware of your own level of soul awareness, and to respect it, so that others can respect it also.  Intimacy is a complex issue.  We cannot be intimate unless we feel safe; sometimes we choose unavailable partners because we are afraid of opening up (on a real level, not on a fantasy level); often we find it easier to give than receive.  The years between age 36, the third Jupiter return, and 48, the fourth Jupiter return, are full of crises that give us the opportunity to mature.  Those years separate the men from the boys and the women from the girls--we are not the same at the end of them.  You should take full advantage of this time to learn what is preventing you from taking your place at the table of life--if you are having a problem with finding a partner who can be an equal to you (and not put on a pedestal) tackle it with the good grace and humour you seem to possess. You are not alone in your circumstances, I&#039;m sure there are many more out there who are empathizing with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for being so honest.  Your story is a very good example of the way Chiron works in the chart.  However, I suspect that Chiron is only part of the story, and at least some of the answers would lie in an analysis of the entire chart.  It seems clear, just from your short description, that you are not choosing partners who are your equals, which is a real problem with Chiron in relationships.  Chiron is trying to make you aware of your own level of soul awareness, and to respect it, so that others can respect it also.  Intimacy is a complex issue.  We cannot be intimate unless we feel safe; sometimes we choose unavailable partners because we are afraid of opening up (on a real level, not on a fantasy level); often we find it easier to give than receive.  The years between age 36, the third Jupiter return, and 48, the fourth Jupiter return, are full of crises that give us the opportunity to mature.  Those years separate the men from the boys and the women from the girls&#8211;we are not the same at the end of them.  You should take full advantage of this time to learn what is preventing you from taking your place at the table of life&#8211;if you are having a problem with finding a partner who can be an equal to you (and not put on a pedestal) tackle it with the good grace and humour you seem to possess. You are not alone in your circumstances, I&#8217;m sure there are many more out there who are empathizing with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason P</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2865</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 01:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2865</guid>
		<description>Another good article. This time, I should be even more real than ever....it&#039;s a good time for truth.

As of August 5th, I&#039;ll be a movie title: the 40 year old virgin. It&#039;s a wound that never heals. At 16, my dad went to prison for 9 years (molestation) and I, all ready untrusting of his life since 10 - after parent&#039;s brutal divorce - just took it all one step further, learning how not to relate to women well ever. A few times I would start a relationship, but if it got too intimate, it went south quickly. 3 times I rejected sex before 26. I fell into alcoholic ways, and still maintained a job and a fascade of being a whole man. But alas, it never worked. At 28, I fell for a slightly older woman, who was helpful for a time - mentor more than any potential lover - but I mistook that, and lo, I damaged it when I protested a greater love than what was ever possible. For my efforts: a stalking charge which were trumped up, but I did violate an order via email, as I resumed alcohol after 18 months dry as a coping mechanism. And lost my freedom for a spell.

 As a result, the last decade I have not dated anyone. (Usually too poor anyways.) My immediate family - mom and her sis - were all I had in my life. Mom, loving and sacrificing. Aunt, a total basket case and hated me since at least 10 - father projected onto me. Feelings became mutual over time towards aunt. Mom died of cancer and dementia last June as I cared for her in her final months alone. 

Since then, I re-enrolled at a Big 10 University last spring, and hope for better. I met a young woman in the last two months, who by our charts would be a match, I think - her Venus and moon conjunct Mars, her sun, mercury on my vertex in Libra, her mars conjunct my uranus, and my chiron is a wide trine to my mars. her chiron is in a wide conjunct my sun and mercury....

Leo for my mars, sun, mercury and her chiron. That said, she&#039;s dating a meatball at work. So my summer job just did not work for me at all...too much tension. We&#039;d have good convos alone, but in a group, she never engages me - and I feel so tense, I try to avoid her often as I can, even though I don&#039;t want to...And I am 19 years older than her! And the rest of the kids are to be blunt: annoying! (I took the job because it required little more than me walking to it...)

But really, I suspect she&#039;s &quot;in love&quot; with the meatball - muscles and all. And I can&#039;t blame her...I know it shouldn&#039;t hurt - but - it does because I feel I would give my soul to be her BF and actually do right by her. Such drivel is unbecoming any real man - though the measure should be what we will sacrifice for our loves, not what we can say we are willing to do - but I&#039;m just getting too old.

I lost 15 lbs this summer, work out daily, and actually don&#039;t look half bad some days. But stressors (GMAT business exam in August) and 40 are eating me alive.

So, Chiron is my cross to bear. Born with it on right on my ascendant and named a &quot;healer&quot; by my dear old dad, five years before the wounded healer was discovered....That&#039;s my story of pain, and lack of fulfillment. IS 50 a possibility before I engage a woman again, if ever????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another good article. This time, I should be even more real than ever&#8230;.it&#8217;s a good time for truth.</p>
<p>As of August 5th, I&#8217;ll be a movie title: the 40 year old virgin. It&#8217;s a wound that never heals. At 16, my dad went to prison for 9 years (molestation) and I, all ready untrusting of his life since 10 &#8211; after parent&#8217;s brutal divorce &#8211; just took it all one step further, learning how not to relate to women well ever. A few times I would start a relationship, but if it got too intimate, it went south quickly. 3 times I rejected sex before 26. I fell into alcoholic ways, and still maintained a job and a fascade of being a whole man. But alas, it never worked. At 28, I fell for a slightly older woman, who was helpful for a time &#8211; mentor more than any potential lover &#8211; but I mistook that, and lo, I damaged it when I protested a greater love than what was ever possible. For my efforts: a stalking charge which were trumped up, but I did violate an order via email, as I resumed alcohol after 18 months dry as a coping mechanism. And lost my freedom for a spell.</p>
<p> As a result, the last decade I have not dated anyone. (Usually too poor anyways.) My immediate family &#8211; mom and her sis &#8211; were all I had in my life. Mom, loving and sacrificing. Aunt, a total basket case and hated me since at least 10 &#8211; father projected onto me. Feelings became mutual over time towards aunt. Mom died of cancer and dementia last June as I cared for her in her final months alone. </p>
<p>Since then, I re-enrolled at a Big 10 University last spring, and hope for better. I met a young woman in the last two months, who by our charts would be a match, I think &#8211; her Venus and moon conjunct Mars, her sun, mercury on my vertex in Libra, her mars conjunct my uranus, and my chiron is a wide trine to my mars. her chiron is in a wide conjunct my sun and mercury&#8230;.</p>
<p>Leo for my mars, sun, mercury and her chiron. That said, she&#8217;s dating a meatball at work. So my summer job just did not work for me at all&#8230;too much tension. We&#8217;d have good convos alone, but in a group, she never engages me &#8211; and I feel so tense, I try to avoid her often as I can, even though I don&#8217;t want to&#8230;And I am 19 years older than her! And the rest of the kids are to be blunt: annoying! (I took the job because it required little more than me walking to it&#8230;)</p>
<p>But really, I suspect she&#8217;s &#8220;in love&#8221; with the meatball &#8211; muscles and all. And I can&#8217;t blame her&#8230;I know it shouldn&#8217;t hurt &#8211; but &#8211; it does because I feel I would give my soul to be her BF and actually do right by her. Such drivel is unbecoming any real man &#8211; though the measure should be what we will sacrifice for our loves, not what we can say we are willing to do &#8211; but I&#8217;m just getting too old.</p>
<p>I lost 15 lbs this summer, work out daily, and actually don&#8217;t look half bad some days. But stressors (GMAT business exam in August) and 40 are eating me alive.</p>
<p>So, Chiron is my cross to bear. Born with it on right on my ascendant and named a &#8220;healer&#8221; by my dear old dad, five years before the wounded healer was discovered&#8230;.That&#8217;s my story of pain, and lack of fulfillment. IS 50 a possibility before I engage a woman again, if ever????</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn Bodrogi</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-2750</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn Bodrogi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-2750</guid>
		<description>Hi Jane--The part of fortune is an interesting point.  It has to do with real things in our lives, our actual life experience.  Things are facilitated where the part of fortune is (which is natural, considering it&#039;s a combination of Sun/Moon and Ascendant).  If Chiron is square Mars and opposite Saturn, you need to come to terms with the masculine element in life, both the driving force and power of desire (the good side) and the cutting ruthlessness and cold determination (the not-so-good side).  The part of fortune will help bring these experiences to you so that you can learn from them, and learn to embrace your masculine side.  Taking on the maturn Chiron role, that of the teacher and healer, will help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jane&#8211;The part of fortune is an interesting point.  It has to do with real things in our lives, our actual life experience.  Things are facilitated where the part of fortune is (which is natural, considering it&#8217;s a combination of Sun/Moon and Ascendant).  If Chiron is square Mars and opposite Saturn, you need to come to terms with the masculine element in life, both the driving force and power of desire (the good side) and the cutting ruthlessness and cold determination (the not-so-good side).  The part of fortune will help bring these experiences to you so that you can learn from them, and learn to embrace your masculine side.  Taking on the maturn Chiron role, that of the teacher and healer, will help.</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-1806</guid>
		<description>hi dawn,
thank you very much for this beautifully and thoughtfully written article. I have chiron square mars in my natal chart and also chiron opposition saturn. what i&#039;ve just read - particularly the letting go of the ego-centric desires and patient healing - has greatly oriented me because for a long time i have been experiencing pain, fustration and sorrow regarding my academic life, my past relationhips...
 I have a question that is slightly off the subject though...do you think that a conjunction between chiron and part of fortune (in my natal chart) somehow intensifies the need to approach chironic issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi dawn,<br />
thank you very much for this beautifully and thoughtfully written article. I have chiron square mars in my natal chart and also chiron opposition saturn. what i&#8217;ve just read &#8211; particularly the letting go of the ego-centric desires and patient healing &#8211; has greatly oriented me because for a long time i have been experiencing pain, fustration and sorrow regarding my academic life, my past relationhips&#8230;<br />
 I have a question that is slightly off the subject though&#8230;do you think that a conjunction between chiron and part of fortune (in my natal chart) somehow intensifies the need to approach chironic issues?</p>
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		<title>By: ode</title>
		<link>http://theinnerwheel.com/2011/06/17/the-cave-and-the-arrow-chiron-beyond-the-wound-part-two/#comment-1583</link>
		<dc:creator>ode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theinnerwheel.com/?p=2176#comment-1583</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Sun also brings light, in this case to Chiron, but the motivation to do something about the awareness would have to come from other aspects in the chart&quot;
Like Saturn conjunct Chiron?
funny I read somewhere else too that Saturn in this case won&#039;t let Chiron in..
but it seems they&#039;re complementary in a way.. both get something from the other it seems..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Sun also brings light, in this case to Chiron, but the motivation to do something about the awareness would have to come from other aspects in the chart&#8221;<br />
Like Saturn conjunct Chiron?<br />
funny I read somewhere else too that Saturn in this case won&#8217;t let Chiron in..<br />
but it seems they&#8217;re complementary in a way.. both get something from the other it seems..</p>
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