I intended to begin a series on the Moon’s Nodes in synastry, but I fear you’re going to think I’m angle-mad, (which I am, and yes, I know the nodes aren’t angles, but they behave like angles), so we’re shifting a bit. The transiting Sun is over my Neptune this week, and the transiting nodes are squaring it. This piece just came spilling out.
C’mon, let’s face it. We have to admit that we’re all a little in love with the outer planets. We love to read about them and write about them, like young girls reading teen magazines and emailing one another about the latest heartthrob. 
They’re the glamour boys of the group. They’re the movie stars, bigger than life and just as inaccessible. Flamboyant, careless, powerful, they push us around and we don’t mind very much– until something truly awful happens.
Of all the glamour boys, Neptune has got to be the most deadly. We’re a little frightened of Pluto, who behaves a bit like some gangster, the Humphrey Bogart or Cagney of the group. We might be in love with him, but he might shoot us dead, too, if we get out of line, so we know we’d better be careful around him. Uranus is the wacky genius, the unbalanced freak, the steely alien, the misfit who fascinates us. He’s electric and exciting, but he might abandon us tomorrow, so we take what comes and hope for the best (If you think this isn’t attractive, think again. Think Doctor Who and any role Johnny Depp has ever played.) Now Neptune…
The danger of Neptune is that we never see him coming, and once he weaves his spell we can’t find our way out. In the beginning, we don’t mind—and then it’s too late. Pluto and Uranus both can cut us abruptly; we leave wounded, squashed, maybe, burnt up and out, but with our brains intact. Neptune doesn’t stop until we reach absolute bottom, and it often takes us a while before we know we’re there. Neptune never demands, never asks for surrender; he seduces us into surrendering of our own volition. Low whispers of promise, of bliss, of perfection. Neptune tells us that all our troubles will be gone, and will never return, as long as he’s around. Neptune is the answer to the question that you didn’t know you were asking, but now that it’s answered, everything feels strangely complete. Neptune weaves himself around us until we don’t know where we end and Neptune begins. And then he seduces the ultimate surrender from us, beyond heart and mind. He seduces our soul. Under Neptune’s spell we become one with the all, all experiencing, all knowing, all feeling. We drown, and we release the burden of ourselves, our egos, our consciousness. This is otherwise known as death.
Those of us who live with a heavy Neptune influence can have Neptunian periods where we veer between ecstasy and despair. This see-sawing can be about things spiritual, relationship-oriented, creative, or psychological. We can experience utter bliss and oneness one week, and the next fall into the Neptunian trap of ‘nothing matters.’ This isn’t a variation on manic-depression, but to do with the fact that our perceptions wax and wane with the Neptunian influence. Ironically, it’s often when we’re most in touch with Neptune that we feel most clear. We often live in the grey area between the manifest and the unmanifest worlds, because Neptune alters our perceptions of the way the world is put together. Neptune allows us to see and feel things non-Neptunians do not. (Neptune is always somewhere in the chart. Wherever it falls, we have a higher sensitivity, we see beyond the walls.) When we follow our instincts in unlikely directions, it’s often because we have more underlying information. However, if our decisions are not soul-based, (for the good of all) but ego-based (for the good of me only), these excursions are doomed to failure. Neptune has no time for the greedy ego, and when Neptune is in high gear, a me-based life with no service involved will ultimately lead to the worst punishment of Neptune, the loss of Self.
One of the most deadly things about Neptune is the way he can convince us of the illusion of perfection.Wherever he falls, wherever he rules, we have to learn to live with a degree of longing.
Neptunians never feel complete. It’s been called ‘divine discontent.’ (I forgot who coined the phrase, but surely it was one of the romantic poets. If not, they should have.) Divine discontent is a ‘happy face’ phrase slapped on Neptunian longing, the creative force behind an eternal restlessness, a hunger for divinity, impossible to assuage by the very fact of incarnation in this world. Incarnation is all about boundaries, and Neptune doesn’t like to be trapped inside. Divine discontent has been responsible for all the creative product in the world. It is one of Neptune’s main functions as the higher octave of Venus. It connects our smaller selves with the greater, and inspires us to make something of our visions.
But this same longing for (unattainable) completion is what pulls Neptunians towards addictions, which can include being addicted to a relationship. Addictions dissolve the boundaries of the ego, we fall into false completion, false bliss. As the ego sheds its worldly responsibilities, we want nothing but bliss. The jettisoning of the separate Self, and all the real-life and spiritual responsibilities associated with it, can be as intoxicating as a drug.
In synastry, this false bliss can take the form of another human being. We need this person. We have no life without this person. This person is everything I’ve ever craved, and will ever crave. Fortunately, experienced Neptunians learn to recognize the danger signs (dependency, loss of self, excuse-making, obsessive fascination) and after a while, know what to look out for. Those who don’t struggle with Neptune on a daily basis can be his worst victims. They get taken by surprise.
I have to admit that in all my years of doing synastries, I’ve seen Neptune cause the most outright suffering. Now, this could be because of resonance. I believe we attract clients whose issues match our knowledge and experience. So I attract more Neptune-oriented folks than most. Neptune has a dangerous proclivity to urge us to lose ourselves in a well of grief for the unattainable, making life itself seem futile. I don’t know what’s worse, having the dream and then losing it, or having the dream of a dream.
Neptune in synastry allows us to fool ourselves. Is he really the embodiment of perfection? Is she someone I can’t live without? No. That’s just a story Neptune is telling us, but the story is so effective, so real, so orchestrated to our own particular psychic kinks, that we believe in it totally. Neptune is the best director of all time, making a movie just for us.
One thing to keep in mind when dealing with Neptune in synastry is the fact that, when we are betrayed by others, we have really been betraying ourselves. What within us has been kept blind by Neptune’s spell, allowing us to be deceived? We are not victims. Neptune’s famous illusion has a purpose–it is orchestrated precisely to reveal our blind spots to us. Often, these blind spots are covering things we would rather not see, abuse, neglect, abandonment. The reenactment of these patterns when Neptune is part of the synastry picture forces us to revisit the terror, because our blind spots are preventing our proper connection with the world around us.
The trick to living with Neptune, either natally or in synastry, is to keep yourself anchored. You can’t let the waves carry you out to sea. You have to know when to pull back, when to keep separated. You have to have something heavy and real and of the earth (some Saturn, perhaps) to sink into Neptune’s belly and keep him and you in place. You need the sky above you to keep you rational so you know where you are. And you need some instinctual fire to read the signs and tell you when a storm is brewing up and you need to get the hell out of there before you drown. When worse comes to worst, the answer is almost always in Virgo. Just do something useful. Something real.
Common knowledge says that in synastry, the person who has the Neptune will put the spell on the person who has the inner planet. Frankly, I haven’t seen this. I have to say that I’ve seen more of it the other way around, that it’s the Neptune person who gets enchanted by the inner planet person. Certainly at first. The complications of the inner planet person come later in the relationship, when they can’t get a handle on where the Neptune person is coming from. I have to say that this is true especially in the case of oppositions. In these cases in particular, the Neptune energy gets projected onto the planet, and its fueled by the fact that the planet is on Neptune’s polarity point. That planet embodies something that Neptune needs to learn, to become. The person embodies that lesson, along with the illusion of completion. The fascination is inevitable. This occurs even with lesser hard aspects, but the opposition is the potent one, followed by the square.
Early on, when we’re young, life with Neptune can be torture. Over and over again, we hunger for what is inaccessible, and it’s unbearable. We fall in love with gay people, married people, famous people, and we fall hard. We yearn for lives that we will never have. We pray to focus our energies, on something, anything, that will give us fulfillment, and it never comes (at least, not in the way that we expect). Later on, after we’ve had a bit of reality thrown at us…no, wait…later on life with Neptune is a struggle, too. But it becomes easier when we learn that we can have some of the things that Neptune promises us (even some bliss). Eventually, we learn that the secret of surviving Neptune is in keeping the heart wide open, as frightening as that might be after a Neptune episode. We are tempted to shut Neptune out of our lives, and that is the most dangerous thing of all. When we do, we live lives without magic, without the thrill of seeing our hopes, wishes and dreams (yes, with hard work) become reality. Without Neptune, we feel cut off from the possibilities the universe affords us. Still, we have to keep a very steely eye on that hypnotic bastard or he’ll weave that stupid spell again and the waves of goo will pull back and we’ll find ourselves stranded out in the middle of the desert of nowhere (again), forced to feel our way home via an unfamiliar landscape.
I was going to go on to make some comments about how the illusion of perfection is the result of the dark side of Virgo, which is a dominant theme in our Piscean age, but I’m not going to. I realized as I was re-reading this before posting it, that no one ever talks about the good things that Neptune brings. Really, it’s almost as if they don’t exist. No wonder Neptune feels he has to seduce us, he doesn’t believe that any of us would go to him willingly.
Neptune’s rewards are not really physical. Not like the rewards that come with Saturn work, or the benefit of using your Mars or Mercury to maximum effect. But working with Neptune does come with benefits.
Ironically, clarity is one of them. When Virgo discrimination is applied to Neptune, the fog lifts, and we are inspired. We can see things we’ve never seen before, create things we never thought possible, and yes, even feel states of consciousness we’ve never felt. We realize that bliss, joy and oneness are possible in this world. Neptune allows us to see past the illusion of our Earthly boundaries and realize that the ultimate boundary, the schism between “I” and the universe itself, is an illusion. Neptune teaches us that whatever effects one effects the all.
In synastry, Neptune can give us great compassion. It can even give us empathy, if we push our own egos out of the way. Neptune can allow us to cherish our partners and forgive them their flaws, because we are all too aware of our own. Neptune allows us to know our partners intimately, and to allow our partners to know us. Neptunian trust is the bravest and highest form of trust, because we don’t allow ourselves an out. We give ourselves over entirely and willingly, because we know that, no matter what happens, we will survive. Neptune allows us to see divinity in the beauty of another, in a gesture, in a whisper. It allows us to live hand in hand with a higher power, and surrender with grace, in full knowledge of what we are doing.
The most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen on this Earth, and I say ‘thing’ deliberately, because I’m including sunsets and mountains and leopards and paintings and anything else of this world, was another human being. Not anyone I know. He was standing near me on a London street. The light caught him in a gentle halo, and I actually let out a quiet gasp, stunned that anything so beautiful could be formed from the random chaos of the world. I walked away, a bit shaken, but convinced that something in me had been opened, altered. End of story. (I’m a double Virgo, you didn’t think there was going to be a Neptunian finish here, did you?)
I’ve been around for a while now, have done a lot of things, seen a lot of things, and am not easily impressed. I was humbled by my reaction, by my susceptibility; there is something about beauty that makes pilgrims of us all. Neptune allows us to be awed, and that’s the crack that lets the light in. It brings us to our knees. What was altered in me that day? I still don’t know. That’s Neptune for you. Something to do with having faith in the creative powers of the universe. Something to do with abundance. Something to do with the pure joy of living.
But that’s my Neptune journey, my personal navigation through the manifest and unmanifest worlds, towards a realignment with the magical unknown. Yours will be different.
Yikes,
Synchronicity finding this – thru ElsaP BTW – me double Virgo just had amazing 16 – 18th ‘enlightenment’ and my Neptune was exactly conjunct new moon in Libra (in my 2nd) and my (ex?) husband has his Neptune at 17 Libra conjunct his moon at 19 (in his 1st).
He has been leaving me for decades and now is physically apart – gone – but still intros me as wife – and I cannot ever not be his wife. I am me but there is some connection – perhaps indescribable – that exists even in the solid and true heartline of my hand – that will only die when I do. My god, it’s 1:11 again on the clock – I keep seeing 1’s – for months – years now, everywhere I look. I don’t know what any of this ‘means’ but thanks for your attempt to shine a light thru the fog.
You know, Sabina, one of the best ways of dealing with Neptune is to demystify him. We overly romanticize our deeper connections–they happen to people all the time. I’m not saying that they’re not special, but it’s important for us to recognize the fact that these connections do exist, do occur on a regular basis. Neptune allows us to see and feel the connection; he goes wrong (or rather, we go wrong) when we attribute too much power to it. You have to say to yourself, “Okay, I have a deep soul connection to another human being. Big deal. What now?” The answer is to get on with ordinary things, and just accept your connection. Nothing has to come of it. It just is. With Neptune, we have to decide what’s right for us and then give up expectations. Buddhism teaches us to let go of hope, because hope itself becomes an attachment. There is a lot of Neptunian sense in that.
I think Neptune will lose a lot of his hypnotic power once we recognize his legitimacy as the higher octave of Venus. Our standard interpretations and expectations of Venusian love are so limited. I see people navigating the deeper waters on a daily basis, and they are made stronger, wiser and more compassionate by it. Throw down that anchor, and you’ll be fine.
Thank you.
Great post. I had to learn this the hard way and then move on: ‘“Okay, I have a deep soul connection to another human being. Big deal. What now?” The answer is to get on with ordinary things, and just accept your connection. Nothing has to come of it. It just is.’
And, surprisingly, there is no bitterness. It’s always grand to have loved.
Can’t wait for your post on nodes and synastry. There isn’t much about them on the net: I looked.
The greatest lesson that Neptune teaches us is that love is its own reward.
“The greatest lesson that Neptune teaches us is that love is its own reward.”
So true.
After composite/davison with 12 th house neptune in scorpio rising. Venus gemini conjunct Nn and taurus desc…
Now Saturn rules.
I stumbled across your post because I have been so obsessed with finding out why I had such an incredibly strong attraction to a guy I met during jury duty. The story is long and I know, that this is all about me, learning how to heal myself from the past and less about him being my perfect “soul mate”. I do not want to let go…but I refuse not to stay as anchored as I can. I noticed that doing our synastry chart we had 17 aspects related to Neptune…the strongest being my Neptune conjunct his Sun. 17 seemed like an awfully high number compared to the other aspects and I started searching and found your blog. Thank you so much for helping me stay grounded. It is odd that I seem to attract Scorpios to me. My Mother is a Scorpio and My daughter is a Scorpio…and this man is a Scorpio. I don’t know what I am suppose to learn…but, the man from jury duty is going thru a divorce and not available to me (of course, right?) lol but I am going to meet up with a man that I met thru a dating site…we have been chatting and he has so many of the same qualities as the other man (almost oddly so) He has Scorpio as his ascendant…and he lives 4 blocks from the other man. Anyway…thank you for sharing. You are a wonderful writer.
This is one of the most accurate, albeit brief, explanations of Neptune in Synastry. The other one was Liz Greene’s book called ‘Neptune in Synastry and Composite’, which was, although negative, accurate.
I hoped to see more explanations of interplay between charts when Neptune is involved, may be some examples of your clients and how they dealt with it, both positive and negative expressions. But, I do understand that talking about Neptune is always vague. 🙂
Again, great article on Neptune interplay.
Thank you, Advaitha. We will certainly be doing some more explorations of Neptune in synastry, and yes, we can certainly use some case studies. The positive manifestations of Neptune are little noted, and yet I see them all the time. Neptune is particularly interesting in composite. We’ll be getting back to this in a short while.
Thanks for your post it was very enlightening. My husband left me a year ago and he has financially shafted me in more ways I can count. We have a Neptune composite in our 8th house – it now makes sense why what has happened has as I have pondered for the last three years why he did what he did. Only now and through much examination and soul searching am I seeing what is the truth and the scales are literally falling from my Piscean ascendant eyes LOL. Thanks for your thoughtful insights.
this was a really fantastic read. and thank you for taking the neptunian road (positive) in writing about neptune, very refreshing. i’d be interested to hear your thoughts on neptune on sun/moon midpoints (mutually) in synastry as well as the composite, alongside an already exact venus/neptune conjunction in the same synastry comparison if you have a chance. thanks again for the lovely post.
Stephanie,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to your comment, your post must have slipped through the cracks. When Neptune is that prominent in a chart comparison, you’re both dealing with your own illusions of what partnership should be. You are also longing for a spiritual connection–a lot of people say they want this, but in practice aren’t willing to do the work involved. These kinds of partnerships are much more difficult than the usual hook up, because you are longing to find your Self through interaction with another, who is certainly set out to disillusion and disappoint you in some way, no matter how close you are. Much depends on what Neptune is doing in each of the natal charts. One partner may be more prone to illusion than the other, while the other might be more prone to projection. If Neptune is very heavy in a synastry, it’s usually better to get a professional’s help–either through astrology or therapy.
Hi Dawn,
Sorry I didn’t see earlier that you had replied! I never clicked the “notify” box when I originally posted. I appreciate your insights very much though. The spiritual connection is kind of damning for all the reasons you’ve already so eloquently touched on. The synastry between me and this person seems to be pretty Neptune heavy indeed although its hard to pinpoint because all our planets (apart from his Moon) conjunct one another at different points. Apart from what I mentioned between us, my Neptune is at my midheaven along with my Venus/Uranus and his falls to the degree onto that Venus/Uranus conjunction, which is also his Venus/Mars midpoint. We met in an Neptunian context (music and the arts) and that seems to play a big role in this too and makes me want to continue in that field based on the inspiration this relationship has afforded. As much as I’m inspired by the Neptunian energy though, it feels very hard to integrate in a truly PERSONAL relationship…I guess that’s the nature of the outer planets? I really long for that energy to be integrated into our personal relationship but it seems to inspire more fascination and kind of paralyzing fear in terms of facing each other. Sometimes I feel like I can’t even look at him in the eye! I also noticed in our Davison (which I’ve been hesitant to use when I look at charts because I’m not totally sure how to articulate what the Davison is, although I can see its manifestations much of the time) the Sun forms a Yod with Neptune and Pluto…anyway I could go on all day about this because this relationship has thus far been really fascinating, I guess because of all those conjunctions.
Anyway, as always, thanks for your thoughts, they are a pleasure to read. Also I’m so sorry about your father, I hope you and your family are managing well. My condolences…
Take care and thank you,
Stephanie
I have been struggling with Neptune in synastry for years, maybe because my natal Neptune sits exactly on my Sun-Moon midpoint. I have Venus in mid Scorpio and it conjuncted closely the Neptune of someone I was addicted to for 3 years. I just couldnt live without him, but nothing came out of it. He was emotionally and geographically too far from me. We both felt very scared when we interacted. Now another person has appeared in my life bearing the same forename and his Neptune is again conjuncting my Venus. He is also unavailable, but we have brief encounters (we work together) that make me to think that we are feeling the same way. The longing, the pull and push, the fear, glances, the magnetic attraction… I learnt from my first Neptune that I shouldnt get too carried away.. so I try to stay anchored. He really looks like incarnation of divine glory to me lol.
Isadora,
Each planet has its own ‘story’ in a natal chart, depending on positions, aspects, progressions and transits. If you keep attracting Neptunian connections, you have to find out what Neptune is trying to teach you in your chart. If read properly, it will point out your weaknesses as well as your greatest gifts; where you need to hold on and where you need to let go.
No living person is the incarnation of divine glory, Isadora. Trust me…that’s Neptune at work. Neptune will reveal to you the areas where you’re most easily prone to projections of this kind. If you work on this, you won’t fall into these traps so willingly. What part of you are you denying to yourself? What part aren’t you willing to own?
It is not easy to find what Neptune teaches. I think that my greater weakness is also my greatest gift… that I can turn my weakness into my strength. I have been told – not in a direct manner of course – that I am spiritual myself and bringing divine into everyday life. It is a gift, I know. Maybe that s why I attract similar persons and learn in the “hard way” to deal with that spirituality… to keep my feet on the ground while flying in the clouds. Before I flied only in the clouds…
So I dont think of these Neptunian soul mates as of a trap. They are rather my close soul brothers. And the last one is still teaching me and I hope that it will grow into something really beautiful for both of us.
Yes, I think ‘trap’ was a wrong choice of word. Neptune doesn’t trap, he lures, and for good reason. As you can see from the article, I’m very pro-Neptune. (My chart is full of it. I’m a double Virgo (Sun/Asc) but I have a Sun/Jupiter conjunction in the 12th, Mars in Pisces and Venus square Neptune.) I’ve learned the greatest lessons of my life through Neptunian relationships and Neptunian encounters, and still do so. For Neptunians, the soaring heights, the dissolve and the mystery is where we need to go for our own evolution. We just need to make sure we leave a copy of our flight plan on the ground.
Hi alcuin9, your post was so helpful to me (helpful is an apt word… I am a Virgo Venus and I almost laughed when you wrote you were a double Virgo seeing how much your writing appealed to my aesthetics).
I am getting into a relationship with a man whose Sag Neptune is square my Virgo Venus and opposite my AC, and my Cap Neptune is square his Pisces Sun. All descriptions of Neptune sq. Venus said I’d be “bewitched” by him but it seems the other way around, as you say.
I’ve described our relationship as a “mist” (the composite has Venus opposite Neptune) and I feel like whatever happens, happens. I trust he understands himself very well (hope Neptune isn’t saying that bad thing to trust) and so I enjoy his attention and feel free to give him mine.
We are both very earthy, his Moon and Mars in Virgo/Cap and my Moon and Mars in Capricorn, on top of Venus in Virgo. It’s like highly organized, controlled enchantment; patterned mist… I guess that’s how I know Neptune must be working mightily in there somewhere! It’s just impossible to describe how that even works. If you say Neptune works best when anchored, this sounds like it may be what is happening.
Suffice to say, your article just encapsulates what I’ve been experiencing very well, and I have a better idea of how I might handle this relationship with a very earthy “Neptunian” person (being an earthy “Mercurial” person). This article is great just to understand Neptune in general, too. Thank you for this!
It’s interesting that Neptune can escalate between charts when it isn’t important natally. Particularly when it hits angles. Neptune is always going to be an issue between you, and you’ll have to work to make sure that you’re both connecting on a realistic level, communicating what’s necessary, and that you both steer clear of illustions and unrealistic expectations. The only way to deal with this strong synastric Neptune. Your mutually earthy Moon/Mars signatures are a good grounding factor. Stay honest emotionally, stay honest sexually, and you should be all right.
I agree, Neptune is frightening; I’d take Pluto or Uranus any day. I think I have the opposite problem. I’m too grounded and don’t want to be enveloped by Neptune’s bubble. I hold on for dear life. But if I look carefully, there’s far more Neptune in my than I’d care to admit to. And so there should be with a Neptune to Sun/Venus opposition. It’s become something of an undercurrent, a case of ‘not me! not me!’. I guess that’s the plight of the opposition…
You’re right–a lot of times people who want to avoid Neptune grab the Virgo end of the stick. You see a lot of these types in the medical profession; they have the compassion of Pisces and want to help, but they rely on the precision and attention to detail on the Virgo side. If Neptune is opposed your Sun/Venus, if you don’t embrace it, it’s likely that you’ll take on a partner or surround yourself with others that live out the Neptunian end. Not that this reflects on you, but I’ve seen many, many cases where an unacknowledged Neptune comes in as an artistic, drug or alcohol addled partner. And yes, it’s all about learning to let go.
I have come across the flaky artistic type partner interpretation before, and (as yet!) it hasn’t applied to me. Can’t work out if it’s Saturn’s grounding or Neptune is out trumped by Pluto and Uranus! Either way, Neptune’s influence over me is pretty subtle. But I have had a couple of lessons regarding letting go recently. It’s tricky when holding tight is so habitual but it is required to reduce the impact of an inevitable explosion!
Our partnership signatures are very complex and it’s possible that in your chart, Pluto and Uranus are more influential. All of the outer planets are about letting go–the only difference is the method. We cover this in the synastry class.
alcuin9..Great post ! Thank you ! Having neptune and moon in house 1 natally, sagittarius rising with neptune conj. ascendent, neptune sq midhaven, mars trine neptune, the “being grounded” makes perfect sense. Especially the whole soul connection thing and realizing now “so what deal with it ” is the best way to go. I am looking at a synastry – Sagi Neptune Square a virgo Sun 2.81 orb, Neptune Sextile Mercury 5.87 ,Neptune Square Jupiter 3.01 ,Neptune Trine Uranus 2.80 and Neptune Sextile Chiron 0.25 , and feel the “divinity” but can’t decide if the personal planet person here is apt to feel the “deception” more ? Jupiter aspects are the other predominant ones, tight sextile, trine, conjunctions and sextile, with moon, venus, mars and ascendent respectively. Thanks!
If you’re working with a synastry, the most important contacts would be to angles, angle rulers, and the relationship planets: Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars and sometimes Saturn. Those are the most influential in the interactions between people in a relationship. Sounds like this relationship is more Jupiter dominant than Neptune (even though Jupiter is the secondary ruler of Pisces). Which is a nice thing, because Jupiter contacts are friendly, if we don’t fall into its excesses. I couldn’t possibly comment further without analyzing the charts in question. Sorry.
The universe does work in strange ways, just read the “Hot Summer Squeeze” post and my tightest natal aspect is Neptune sq Venus. If you are kind enough to look at this synastry chart some more, how may I share the details with you ? Thanks a ton, my amateur knowledge is now becoming more of a hindrance than help!
Hi, whatnow–
You’ll understand that I can’t really spend a lot of time on this. Synastry is a complicated, delicate and time consuming thing. But if you want me to take a very quick look, email the data to me at alcuin9@gmail.com and I’ll see if anything sticks out.
Dawn, I so appreciate the offer, I wrote to your hotmail id several days ago, hope my mail is not languishing in your junk folder. Read your post on angles and nodes and having checked it in charts of three relationships, two couples , 35+ years of marriage and one long standing friendship ,it bears out. The difficult part of this whole discipline is being able to to look at each aspect without missing the forest for the trees.
Hi,
No, your email isn’t languishing. I’ve been booked up with readings, teaching and life. I will take a look when I can, I promise.
Hi Dawn!
I know this is so old at this point you may not even see this, but recently came across Liz Greene’s book about Neptune in synastry and was reminded of your post on this and was curious what your thoughts are on her idea that Venus/Neptune synastry often leads to disappointment on a sexual level.
Hi Stephanie,
It certainly leads to disappointment at a romantic level. This can also affect the sexual level, because Venus is how we attract what we want, and Neptune to Venus sets the bar way too high. The best way to deal with Neptune in connection to a relationship planet is to understand that sex has a spiritual element to it (I’m not talking about woo woo romance here, I’m talking about practical sexuality) and sexual practices that encourage spiritual connection help the Neptune person bridge the gap between fantasy and reality. At the end of it all, Neptune is searching for divinity on earth, and sometimes, with the right practice, it finds it.
Thanks Dawn! Always appreciate your insights 🙂
Hi Dawn,
I am really glad to have found your website and your insights are truly valuable. I have enjoyed reading all of the posts and very much looking forward to what is still to come.
As a self confessed Neptune-holic, I have my share of the struggle of both the bliss and despair this planet brings. I have a natal Sun Neptune square, with Sun in the first house at Aries Point (sometimes it appears very Pisces) and also Venus in Pisces intercepted in the first house.
I often wonder what the reality is and the longing to escape and be somewhere else is perhaps inevitable. It will be an ongoing journey of exploration and evolvement, but I feel more authentic now as my solar light is beginning to shine (through Neptune).
I truly resonated with this article and thanks again for sharing your time and knowledge.
Thank you, Jacinta.
this is a wonderful post! id like to ask you about bml(lilith) opposite neptune in synastry, and who feel it more?
thanks very much 🙂
Dear Dawn,
I have been reading your posts for a few weeks now and I love them !
I have been navigating the Neptune waters for 38 years now (I have Sun conj Neptune in 8th house) and everything I read here is pretty familiar to me … 🙂
Believe it or not, over the years I have learned to love Saturn and its grouded effects even more than the deep connections thing coming with Neptune …
Maybe because Saturn has just started transiting my 7th house, I really feel like : “Okay, I have a deep soul connection to another human being. Big deal. What now?”
Neptune (surprise surprise) is of course again involved in the synastry between me and my new partner (my sun/neptune conj trine his mars/venus/uranus) and I don’t feel so much happy about it …
But … He has sun opp saturn with my saturn conj his sun and opp his saturn … So we also have a sat/sat opp … Which makes me think that we could find a way together out of the illusions and build up a relationship anchored in reality … Which is my wish now …
Coul you please tell me what you think about it ?
Thanks a lot !
Anne
Saturn is always a good antidote to lots of Neptune. Impossible to judge without seeing the charts, and the nature of the 7th houses.
Hi Dawn. I’m new to your site, and this is the only article I’ve read so far, and I have to say thank you for writing it. It really resonates with me. I have Sagittarius Neptune conjunct my ascendant in the 12th house, as one of the points at the base of the one yod that is my chart.
Perhaps needless to say, people project a lot of weird stuff in my direction. I haven’t always discouraged this. But I’m becoming more conscious of myself and am realizing that I have a social responsibility to make myself – my personality, my interests, my creative endeavors, psychic gifts – more transparent. I have to consciously adjust for this when I meet people now. It helps tremendously in keeping me accountable for the state of my ‘connections’ to the people in my life.
Thought I’d share, in case anyone else goes through something like this.
Hi Dawn
The study on neptune was very enlightening.
what would you say if there was a separating ven/nep square in natal as well as in synastry but not in composite ?
would it be stabilizing if composite had nep/sat square with positive nep/sat connections in synastry?
Can ven/nep sq also indicate a spiritual love connection without declared marriage ?
Venus/Neptune always inclines us to the spiritual level of connection. We must learn to love for the sake of love itself, and relinquish possession. If there is no square in the composite, it may mean that the relationship is not a delusional one–when you are together, things are more clear. I’m afraid that Neptune/Saturn is its own problem, and not the solution to anything. It is about the struggle to ground Neptune in the real world, and make use of its beauty and its truth. There may be a lot of fear surrounding this, or a resistance to Neptune or Saturn from one or the other party. It’s about making the ideal, real.
This is the most beautiful, poetic peace about Neptune I have ever read. Yet, so succinct and exact, as befits a Virgo. I am awed. I have experienced all this (I have Neptune-Jupiter conjunction in the fifth). I agree with Dawn, do not analyze and try to make sense of the Neptunian connections (or transits), just be open to them and enjoy every second of them as moments of pure enchantment, magic and fantasy are rare in this life and they can be only fleeting. Thank you Dawn.
…meant to say “piece” not “peace”, lol. A Neptunian fog…
Dawn I need your kind thoughts on my relationship.
Composite Neptune in seventh house squaring composite fifth house stellium.
Composite seventh house Neptune squares composite fifth house planets Venus, Mars, mercury, Jupiter, Saturn. It’s only composite moon that trines the composite Neptune.
Is this the relationship that is not advisable for pursual please.
Please, grateful if you throw some light.
Am I the epitomy of the super decieved Neptunian who is completely unaware of the negative effects of an absolutely exact neptune rising? I am loving my Neptune, swimming through the sea of self transcendence; no ambitions to get in the way, just love welling up from within……………
Sounds a bit Neptunian to me, jinni. Make sure you take reality checks from time to time.
Dear Dawn,
I know this post is more about Neptune in synastry but I’m very curious what it means when in the composite chart there is Neptune in the 1st house?
Additional information: composite Venus opposite Neptune, composite Saturn square Neptune and composite Neptune square MC. Is it gonna be a delusional relationship?
Thank you for your answer in advance!
I have to admit that a prominent Neptune is one of the things I least like to see in a composite, unless the relationship is purely artistic or spiritual. It may not be completely delusional with these aspects, but it will be very difficult to ground the relationship in any kind of real life experience. It may be highly romantic, and then dissolve, or it can become totally one-sided. Sometimes the feelings just slip away. Or circumstances gather to make it difficult for two people to be together. It can take a lot of different routes.
Thank you Dawn.
Well, that kinda scares me because we are planning to marry in 5 months from now… There are many good aspects in our composite tho (ie. sun conj moon/mercury, moon conj mercury, saturn trines sun/moon/mercury, etc. and the composite Venus is in the 7th house).
So in this case where there are many nice aspects as well, which is the strongest? Which one we have to consider? The “bad” Neptune position or let’s say the sun conj moon and the Venus in the 7th house?
So I’m reading through these web pages because Neptune is my chart ruler. Before I thought it would be because I can find good infos here.
It is a fascinating idea that clients’ issues match knowledge and experience. So everybody is able to be an astrologer. Or is it a rule for every business, not only astrology?
The last one, who took a look at my natal chart, told me that I should become an astrologer. But I’m reluctant, because I’m actually on the “astrology should be for free” side. Neptunian idea? I heard of people, who fell ill because they turnt spiritual things into a business. So I thought business is contradicting spirituality in general. Oh, OK, while typing this I see the relation to the Pisces-Virgo-axis. A double virgo attracting neptunians? So I would attract virgos and mercurians? In daily life I don’t attract any virgos. If I would, then they still wouldn’t believe in astrology, so how could that work out?
I even don’t understand that guy’s method of vocational astrology. He told me that his recommendation is in order to bring my Moon out of my Fourth house and that it has somehow to do something with my Mercury in the Ninth house. Does anybody understand that? He also told me not to draw conclusions from the fact that my unrequested astrological advices are not appreciated. But my way of thinking is neptunian (Neptune conjunct Mercury) and so I believe that there is a purpose when I get birth datas of other people. Isn’t that a kind of permission? I heard that it would be difficult to obtain birth datas of other people, but those, who met me personally, did always hand their data over quite easily. Is it hard for others to obtain birth datas?
Hi Dawn,
i’m actually reading a lot about Neptune in synastry, i had a strong attraction for a men, it was like Paradise, and then after 15min the Hell. We got separated, and i’m now still struggling to understand what happened. I have seen his Saturn opposite my Neptune (my Neptune is in the 12th house), i felt it was something intense here, but if you can tell me a bit more about it it would be very helpful! I really enjoyed reading your piece about it, thanks for sharing!
Charlot, Saturn opposite Neptune is one of the most cruel, and also the most simple, aspects between charts in synastry. At first, there is intense attraction, because Saturn seems to be the one to make your dreams a reality, fulfill everything you’ve ever longed for. Saturn is attracted to Neptune, to help it escape its prison of reality. Alas, eventually, Saturn stomps on Neptune (usually), breaking the bubble. Saturn can get satisfaction in treading Neptune to the ground, angry at Neptune for letting Saturn think it can get off the hook. It can work if Saturn and Neptune work in a creative partnership, but most often everyone is angry or disappointed about being disillusioned.
Hi, Dawn. In (still) (desperately) seeking clarity & release from my obsession with a beyond-dead relationship characterized by Sun-Neptune conjunct in the composite, I came across this article on Sasstrology and was blown away by how the author took the words from my own mouth. Then I realised it was you—of course! Such brilliance. Thank you for this. I continue to struggle to extract myself from my attachment to and longing for the illusion that arose around this man, quite in spite of everything unacceptable to me about him and what life would have become with him. Every single reminder that this is “just a story Neptune is telling” me to bring to light the work I have yet to complete is helpful.
Transiting Chiron is currently bear-hugging my natal Pisces Moon in the 12th (with Neptune bringing up the rear). It is a mercy that transiting Saturn is also very snug with my natal Sun right now, which is blessing me with some discipline and new tools to work with my addictive emotional patterns. I have learned so much already. The pain is not what it would have been in younger years.
I also have Pisces Rising and Pisces South Node in the 12th, and my natal Neptune in Sagittarius in the 9th squares my Moon-Saturn opposition. I am very Neptunian indeed. Particularly given my present transits and the work I have been given to do, perhaps a reading with you would be beneficial soon. I would love the opportunity to work with you at some point anyway!
..worried about you being causiously against neptune in composite…
we have sun in 4th opposite neptune in 10th in our composite.
synastry is all double whammies of neptune sun/ascendant
and we both have natal venus neptune….
did I mention that we are leo(sun) and pieces ( neptune) suns?……
my question is : is there a possitive way to channel this energy to work in a real commited partnership?
thank you!
There is always a way to work with/channel the energy in a positive way. The outer planets are all asking us to connect in a better, more authentic and more loving way. Unfortunately, we are so steeped in possessiveness (either out of the need for control or fear of abandonment) that we have a hard time hearing the messages. There is also a lot of denial with Neptune. You have to be brave, put on your best Virgo glasses, and look things straight in the eye.
The Agony and Ecstasy of Divine Discontent is a poem read by Rumi. Deepak Chopra ft. Sonja Sohn made a song together using this wonderful poem.
Thank you for the article !!!
Many years ago, I think I had the dream within the dream issue here. Her Neptune sits in the 12 house, 2 degrees from the Asc. My lilith conjuncts there. Here Lilith sits on my Mars in Leo, and I’m an Aries Ascendant with Chiron conjunct there.
The moral: I never really knew her when I was falling for her. She brought out all the dreams a man has in a woman. All of them – most good, some people make out the others as bad. She turned latter parts into bad…and I, being a Firey sign (Leo Sun, Mercury close on it) and her (Leo Sun, Jupiter conjuncting my Sun) — made for an explosive condemnations. I am responsible for it though…I am the man.
There were intense discussions on the aspects of abuse. I let her know my story…she “alluded” to hers via a book shared in an instant. I was unaware of the gravity of her share at the time. I was channeling the male stupid gene at its highest octave. Before I could learn the lesson….she struck like a lightening bolt: straight at my heart.
The day of infamy was a full moon at 20 Lib —-her moon sits right there. She triggered on that date a ton of pain…and I wasn’t mature to handle it.
Moral: Neptune wasn’t thought to be the problem…but as I have discovered, it has a way into these charts.
Self-discovery is all I got out of my contact with the escapist sensual and “hot water” woman. She became a nurse after being in private investigation. Her Mars is also in Scorpio….Scorpio rising as mentioned.
She was very evolved —-but even she hasn’t never gotten clear, as she abused Ambien over-prescribed by a podiatrist ex-BF, who got in reprimanded for that.
So I don’t feel as gullible now…a Doctor of Podiatry (ha ha) couldn’t figure her out either.
I wish her well though. She left that lasting watery surge for knowledge. A thirst to evolve to her level…that was worth it, in the longest of runs.
Thanks for listening!
Can I ever relate to this! I don’t have my Sun, Moon, Ascendant, or anything else in Pisces (other than my IC) — but Neptune nevertheless has significant influence in my natal chart because it is retrograde, it conjuncts my Ascendant in the twelfth house, it is a singleton as my only water planet, and it is the apex of at least one yod. After being forced to end what I thought was a very good relationship in my early thirties — a relationship in which I now realize there were strong aspects between my Neptune and nearly ALL my partner’s planets(!) — I made a promise to myself that I was going to rein Neptune in and do everything I can to avoid letting him deceive me. Ironically, even though I also have no planets or points in Capricorn, Saturn also has a lot of significance in my chart because it is a singleton twice over (only Fire Planet, only Cardinal Planet) and also serves as the apex of a yod although one which primarily involves outer planets. I find that Saturn has been helpful to me when it comes to reining Neptune in.
hanks for the story! My sun in conjunction with my Neptune, Venus and Mercury in the 5th house, 60 ° Moon, Pluto, Saturn. I think Neptune represents for me the dream of an ideal partner, forcing me to look for a soul mate who most likely lives somewhere in this physical world. But the question is, can I find her? And I think that if two people with a strong bond of Neptune in the synastry can become honest and open to each other, accept each other and their relationship as a gift from heaven and the realization of their dreams, then Neptune will give them the highest degree of love. But I also think that this is possible only if everyone realizes his true values and needs, which is usually acquired through an impressive experience of failures and disappointments.
In my synastry is his Neptune 0.5 ° with my Sun, his Sun and Venus on my 7h, in the Davison chart the Sun, Venus and the Moon in aspects with Neptune, in the composite Sun in conjunction with Venus, 90 ° to the conjunction of the Moon with Pluto. I am more and more fascinated by him for 10 years, although I do not know him well. I can’t even understand what he looks like. Every rare encounter gives rise to a dumb question when looking at each other. We are neighbors, and only with him we can not begin to communicate for no apparent reason. I often dream about him when I do not think about him, and sometimes I know that I will meet him on the way, when I go by car, and I really meet him. But because of my hypersensitivity, it sometimes seems to me that I can catch his feelings towards others, or project my own onto him, but in reality everything will turn out to be dreams and maybe he doesn’t think about me at all.
Sorry, translate Google.
This is truly one of the most beautiful things that I have ever read. You are gifted with the use of words and made my heart feel all warm and lovey for Neptune. I had never really considered him as important as I now do. Thank you for sharing with us.
Dawn always love your articles. The one here is one of the best from you. Such an exceptionally thorough understanding of an illusive planet it is!
I need your kind thoughts on my relationship.
Composite Neptune in seventh house squaring composite fifth house stellium.
Composite seventh house Neptune squares composite fifth house planets Sun, Venus, Mars, mercury, Jupiter, Saturn. It’s only composite moon that trines the composite Neptune.
Is this the relationship that is not advisable for serious pursual please.
Please, grateful if you throw some light on this.