Out of sign aspects. Okay, hands up—how many of you missed the Venus/Neptune square in Tony Perkins’ chart? I was waiting to see if anyone would comment on it, as it was relevant to the discussion. None of the astrology enthusiasts I spoke to privately about the chart picked it up. Neptune, the North Node ruler and dispositor of the Moon, square Venus in the last degree of sensual Taurus. Certainly something that had to be sorted in this life. Addictions, delusions, deceptions and self-deceptions. A striving for the unattainable, for impossible perfection (more emphasized with Neptune in Virgo). Venus at it’s most earthbound struggling towards the highest form of its expression. A challenge to accept things as they are, to love things as they are. To love yourself as you are. A major theme both for Perkins and Norman.
So why didn’t anyone notice? Because the square was out of sign. Hiding.
They’re tricky, these out of sign aspects. They can deceive us. They deceive us in viewing a chart, and they can deceive the person with the out of sign aspect.
With the basic ptolemaic aspects, there is usually some key to interpretation. Conjunctions are born companions, trines share elements; squares share modality; sextiles are linked by compatible elements. (Only the quincunx is left in the dust, always the astrological odd man out. A quincunx is better understood as a yod with one half missing, but we’ll come to that another day.) By assessing the ‘pattern’ behind the aspect, we can make some sense of the way it’s going to perform in the chart. Our eyes are trained to spot the aspects this way, via sign orientation. Out of sign aspects often slip by undetected (Experienced astrologers are usually the most guilty of not looking at grids, as if grids were for amateurs–all of you who want to be astrologers, use your grids.) and even if they are detected, they can throw us off course, because the ‘typical’ pattern of that aspect is broken.
What happens with a conjunction that straddles signs? A sextile or trine with incompatible elements? Or, perhaps worst of all, a hard aspect whose elements agree?
Basically, with out of sign aspects, planets that should work together, don’t do it so well, and planets that should be in conflict wear a false mask of agreement. The Mars/Moon conjunction in the Perkins chart is an extreme example. Signs that are placed next to one another don’t have a lot in common. In fact, they don’t have much to do with one another at all. An Aries Mars conjunct a Pisces Moon is a very different thing from a Pisces Moon/Pisces Mars conjunction or Aries/Aries. A Moon/Mars conjunction within a sign gives direct access to and expression of the inner being. It might be touchy, but it has an easy time expressing needs and motivations. The Pisces conjunction will behave very differently from the Aries conjunction, but in general there is an ease of expression and purpose. When the Moon and Mars are in conflict within the conjunction, the needs of the Pisces Moon have a harder time getting satisfied, because the Aries Mars is too busy running off and satisfying its immediate (Aries) impulses, which gradually lose their connection to the more gentle needs of the watery Moon. The conjunction becomes fragmented; action splits from the developing consciousness–one side is unaware of what the other side is doing. And yet, the Moon and Mars are irrevocably tied. Mars begins to irritate the Moon, which may not be able to bear all this Martian stimulation. It becomes prickly, hypersensitive, wary, sensitive to any slight, and ultimately, insecure. In the conflict between the sensitive Moon and the aggressive Mars, Mars ‘wins’ –in the beginning, at least. Eventually, time and experience will resolve the difference between the two (well, most of the time) and they will find a way to work together. Mars will be able to use it’s energies to spur the Moon in its development, and the Moon will aid Mars’ quest with emotional substance and inspired direction. But their initial reaction is to wrangle. It may take years, particularly with the intensity and unreliability of the conjunction, before they can find a method that suits them.
This happens in synastry, as well. There is a tension to the out of sign aspect between charts, usually unspoken. It feels as if things are working on the surface and communication between the two planets is happening, but then it can suddenly all go wrong, and misunderstandings occur. Imagine a sextile between Venus in late Leo and Mars in early Scorpio. Normally, sextiles gently stimulate and rub along quite nicely. They have a lot to talk about. They have an easy time setting things in motion. But with the Mars in Scorpio, we now have a sextile between fixed signs. Contacts between fixed signs are notorious in synastry. The key to a sextile is movement. In this case, the energy exchange between the two planets would be increased by the sextile, but the fixed sign expression would add to the heat and the tension of Venus/Mars. Depending on other aspects, the sextile might facilitate flare-ups and misunderstandings, which usually never happens within a sextile’s normal energy flow. The fixity creates frustration and steam, which might be used in either a positive or a negative fashion.
It gets even more complicated when hard aspects are in complementary signs. Again, looking at the Perkins chart, we see the Taurus Venus in conflict with the earth Neptune. An initial reaction might be, well, this eases the conflict, doesn’t it? Not particularly. A square is a square. The outward ‘agreement’ can work in a number of ways, but often what happens is that the issues rising in the square go unnoticed. Rather than resulting in immediate problems which must be resolved, the person is allowed to live with the square, getting away with things that shouldn’t be gotten away with. The square can go underground. Rather than direct conflict, the two signs in agreement support behaviours that would have been intolerable to another sign. Perkins lived his life without being called on what were clearly addictions–perhaps most of all to a lethal perfectionism. The Earth signs facilitated an agreement between Venus and Neptune, throwing a veil over its conflicts and avoiding the usual boat-rocking that causes us to take action. The Earth element added to the entrenchment of the difficulties. Earth is very good at sticking its head in the sand.
The one thing to keep in mind is that out of sign aspects are not ‘wrong’ or weak. If anything, the conflicts they represent are more influential. The universe has intended them, and they’re part of a person’s make-up. I think, as astrologers, we often see things that don’t fit and try to ignore them. If an aspect is out of sign, we might spend our time focusing on the aspect but not on how the out of kilter sign placement influences its expression. It’s worth spending a little more time on these trickster aspects and studying how they manifest. Next time, they won’t fool us so easily.
::applauds:: Thank you!
this is helpful – we can sense and read the state of nodal evolution from the obvious – and subtle – aspects affecting the nodal rulers.
you have me reflecting on the Libra Venus / Leo Mars square in my chart that connects the Nodal rulers to the Ascendent and the Midhaven. along with the rest of my Libra 12 th house placements – there was a definite “trickster” quality to that aspect. however, with the angles involved , Scorpio rising, and the exact Moon Pluto square – as much as my Taurus Moon really wanted to – i could not keep my head in the sand very easily…….
We’re going to get much more involved in reading the nodal rulers in the series on the Nodes. I think there are a lot of mistaken ideas out there about nodal contacts, chief among them that aspects to the North Node ruler automatically ‘assist’, when in fact they both help and hinder. Again, in the Perkins chart (forgive me, Tony) the Venus/Neptune square and Mars/Neptune quincunx pushed towards artistic expression, but it also was a recipe for Neptunian disaster. Overcoming these tendencies was an evolutionary necessity. Unfortunately, they were facilitated by an out of sign sextile between Venus and Mars. Neptune was plugged in to all this opportunity–too much opportunity.
I do have an out of sign square in earth also
Born in 1985, I have Moon @ 28virgo squaring Neptune @ 2capricorn
Moon is ruling my 11th house, Neptune my 7th and if my birth time isn’t off, also my 8th
Moon lives in my 2nd house, Neptune in my 4th…
Hi Dawn,
I’m just trying to make sure I grasp how to understand this in synastry. My sun is 29°56’55” Aquarius, so I end up having A LOT of out-of-element aspects to other people. Are you saying that the signs’ agreement (or disagreement) gives the initial feeling of compatibility (or incompatibility), but that deeper down the aspect wins out? For example, two friends of mine, both have their suns at very early degrees of their signs: one’s a Sagittarius and one’s a Scorpio. At first glance I think, “Oh Sagittarius, we’ll get along great, and Scorpio, this is gonna be rough,” but looking at the charts, my sun is actually square to the Sag’s and trine to the Scorp’s, and I wasn’t really sure how to understand that, so I just figured, “well, maybe the element compatibility will overcome the square with Sag and the trine will overcome Water Versus Air with Scorp” (yeah, I don’t know how I thought that was logical. I was being hopeful!). So I set all that on the back burner of my brain and it’s been months now, and this article brought it back to mind. And thinking of it, I actually got a sense dealing with the Sag just earlier today that, for signs that are supposed to get along (and don’t get me wrong – we do), there’s always this weird tension underneathe. And then with Scorpio, it’s weird too, like there’s some invisible wall between us that keeps us from interacting much when we don’t have a reason to, but when we actually do, we get on so smoothly and things flow. And I wasn’t sure what to make of this until I read this post. Am I understanding it right? Sag and I ought to get on, and do very well superficially, but the square is knotting things up at a deeper level, while Scorpio and I seem to be worlds apart, but the trine smoothes things out when we connect? Aspects trump signs?
Wow, that’s so much longer than it should have been. Sorry. I shouldn’t be allowed near a keyboard.
~Sabrina
Hi Sabrina,
As a rule of thumb, aspect wins out over element, particularly if the aspect is difficult but the signs are compatible. But it’s also true that what is difficult, what gives grist for the mill, is more obvious than things that run smoothly, hence the example with the sextile. Compatible things are silent. Difficult things are squeaky wheels.
Of course, then I reread and your example of the sextile not being so harmonious seems to say the opposite of what I just commented… My brain has turn into slightly electrified scrambled eggs.
dear Dawn,
Can you give some idea about solictice or anticia points in synastry?
Thank You
Sorry, I don’t use them. There is so much to look at in synastry that I don’t find them relevant.
dear Dawn,
Can you give some idea about solictice or anticia points in natal chart and synastry?
Thank You
Hello Dawn
Do you look at Quindecile aspects within a natal?
IS there anything known about it?
thanks!
I don’t use the quindecile series. I’ve researched it and found it inconsistent.
Hello I have seen you mention the late or early degree of the signs , does it matter ? Usually other astrologers ignore them, I am asking because I am interested on it since my moon is in 28,70 degrees of Libra, and some other planets .
Many thanks ! I love that you go deeper on everything and have a more creative *poetic? * and elaborated way of seeing things.
A planet in the early degrees of a sign is less evolved in that sign’s expression than one in the later degrees. By the time we get to the last degrees that Moon is very comfortable and is more likely to draw positive experiences, even if it is debilitated by aspects. Let’s say that the Moon is more ‘wise’ in the later degrees.