As discussed in Part One, there is often confusion about these two, the Vertex axis and the Nodal axis, particularly when it comes to planetary contact to either end of the axis via synastry: both are said to be responsible for the so-called ‘fated’ relationship. But in practice, these two are very different, with a different agenda in mind. Each one asks something unique 
of us, a unique adjustment to the way we interact with the world, and they are not interchangeable. The only thing they have in common is that they draw relationships and situations into our lives that spur our spiritual transformation.
So what are they after, and how are they different from one another?
The Vertex was called the ‘electric Ascendant’ by L.E. Johndro and Charles Jayne, who discovered it independently in the 40’s. It was said to mark the place where the electrostatic release points from the Earth at the birth moment run opposite the magnetic field, thereby giving us two Ascendants–one based on the physical horizon (the natal Ascendant), and one based on pure energy (the Vertex). Johndro related it to Uranus. And there is something decidedly Uranian about how it works: it carries the short, sharp shock of the new, the previously unrealized. Often, Vertex contacts come into our lives, deliver their message, and then disappear just as quickly as they came, leaving us altered in a profound way, but a bit shattered. Can’t get more Uranian than that–Uranus of the higher mind, beyond mere mortality/physicality. The lover or friend who comes ‘out of the blue’ and happens to put us on our path, who helps us know who are we when we are not our earth-created ego, we when we are not our ‘stuff.’ Like the Nodes, the Vertex reveals the soul’s intent, but it is confined to “Who am I?” Who is the inner Watcher, the one who knows? What happens when we discover that the guide to whom we attribute our luck and our grace and our inner wisdom is truly ourselves? This is the Vertex as the deepest part of “I.” When someone’s planet falls on either end of this axis, we cannot remain unaware of this Soul-Self. We are stricken to the core, so that even the core is newly altered.
In contrast, the Nodes are all about our interaction with the world ‘out there.’ Because they consist of the relationship of the Sun and the Moon from the point of view of the Earth, they are about the way our spiritual intent unfolds within material reality. They mark how we process our experience, and what we learn from it. The South Node describes our orientation to life, which is ingrained in us. It’s our habitual way of acting in the world, interacting with it, understanding it. It is the result of lifetimes of negotiating the ‘I’ with the ‘not I,’ the ego with the other. The South Node tells us which colour and pattern we use to filter our experience. The South Node says to us, this is they way the world works, and this is what I know”–only it doesn’t do it consciously. Most often we’re not aware of the way we filter experience, and we assume that others process the world the same way we do–their experience is our experience. And then one day (usually around the time of the first nodal return at age 19) we realize that isn’t really true. We begin to see differences in perception–and this is the beginning of the road towards the North Node.
Where Vertex contacts help to reveal who we are, nodal contacts affect our behavioural comfort zones. Because the nodes involve an intersection of the Sun and the Moon, the classic ‘conjunctio,’ they are about relationship itself. And with this we have to ask what is the function of relationship? On both its deepest and its most mundane level, relationship allows us to grow– through interacting with another being in an intimate way, we begin to understand and reveal and work with elements of the psyche that have not been developed before. We come up against the limits of our own definition of ourselves and either change, accepting the new-found knowledge, or we sink back into past patterns and move on to the next learning experience. This is also the way the outer planets function in relationship–they reveal to us what was previously unseen within ourselves.
If we accept this definition of relationship, then the question of how the Nodes function in synastry is an easy one. Contacts to the South Node perform a very different function from contacts to the North Node.
The South Node involves how we express ourselves, how we give and take, and is often about what we find pleasing and safe. It’s also about what we expect and assume of the world, which is why difficult planets to the South Node can be so damaging. Saturn there may expect the world to be a harsh place; Pluto may find it devouring. The South Node is all about our psycho-spiritual arrangement of our world. We’re comfortable there, harsh as it might be–it’s what we know. If someone’s Venus falls on my South Node, I feel he appreciates me, and the feeling is mutual. He takes the harsh edges off. He likes what I am, without my having to strive for it, or change anything. At its best, when someone’s Venus touches my South Node, they may so value what they perceive as my talents and abilities that I am freed to develop further along those lines, better understanding my own gifts and advantages. Contacts to the South Node always feel like fate (whether they are or not) because the feeling of deep familiarity is palpable–I am understood for what I am, not for what I might be, and that understanding is effortless. Alas, the flaw of South Node contacts is that I am so well known that I may be manipulated, or bored, or my lesser qualities are stimulated, rather than my greater ones. I may fall into a deeper rut via this individual, rather than reach out to what I may become.
Contacts to the North Node from another chart can be inspiring–but they can also irritate and annoy. Our own North Nodes show us where we may develop, but the North Node also holds the key to the very thing that may be standing in our way. The North Node and its ruler often reveal our ‘blind spots’–things we do which make the truth of the North Node harder to unveil. It can often work the same way the Asc/Desc axis works—we are usually very conscious of our Ascendant planets and behaviours, but may project or even reject qualities that our Descendants reveal–the shadow side of our personality. With the South Node, we usually recognize our habits and behaviour, but the North Node holds what is trickier to grasp of ourselves. The North Node is asking us to interact with the world in a new way, and, with its ruler as henchman, may lay out quite clearly what is stopping us from actualizing this feat. Contacts to the North Node can serve in one of two ways: they can shift the veil, inspire us and lure us into new territory, or they can stimulate the behaviour that is blocking our progress and preventing our growth. Contacts to the South Node usually feel like contacts to the Descendant–familiar, comfortable (at least at first) and profound, whereas contacts to the North Node can have an almost Plutonian attraction/repulsion factor. There may be a fascination about it that is downright distressing, and yet we know that this person somehow is leading us down a road we are bound to take, sooner or later. The most profound connections can occur at the times we are experiencing Nodal transits–especially the returns (every 19 years), the reversals (every 9 and a bit years) and the nodal squares to itself. These are times when situations and relationships can boil up in crisis, because they are meant to grab us by the collar and shake a new view into our hearts and minds. New loves enter, old loves leave, the comfy rug gets pulled out from under our feet–we are no longer happy with ourselves, and yet have difficulty understanding just where it is we’re supposed to go. If we’re lucky, we get guided in the right direction. If we aren’t, we are forced to come up with new means of interpreting ourselves and our world view. Planets to either of the Nodes can help in these situations (either natally or from another chart), and we are prone to finding people who reflect that planet at these times. With Saturn or Jupiter on the North Node, we may have luck drawing the right teachers at the right time. Pluto there may get us into situations where our power is tested, and which will reveal a way forward. Venus there can bring love at just the right time. With the North Node stimulated, there is always a shaky uncertainty, which is compulsive in spite of itself. The South Node contacts from another chart are a much easier and more secure ride, even if, ultimately, we have to shed them.
Neither the Vertex or the Nodal axis contacts bring any guarantee of longevity. Judging from my experience with synastry, nodal contacts seem almost common, whereas Vertex contacts between couples are more unusual. It makes sense; contacts would be few and far between who could help us peel back the layers of our outer selves to reach the pure “I” within. To be felt and seen in such a way is a rare intimacy.
But the nodal contacts have a depth and an urgency about them; we know, at some soul level, the path we must take, and both the South and North Nodes are our guideposts along the way. When other people’s planets conjunct our Nodes, we have a fellow traveler, a long-lost companion for this stage in the journey, conjured like magic from an unremembered life to buoy us up or urge us forward, exposing our strengths and our weaknesses, staying by our side when the balance is tipped, helping us decide whether to hold on or let go. That’s another kind of intimacy, the kind that is forged in the fire of shared experience.
I’m glad I don’t have to choose between them.
“When other people’s planets conjunct our Nodes, we have a fellow traveler, a long-lost companion for this stage in the journey, conjured like magic from an unremembered life to buoy us up or urge us forward, exposing our strengths and our weaknesses, staying by our side when the balance is tipped, helping us decide whether to hold on or let go. That’s another kind of intimacy, the kind that is forged in the fire of shared experience.”
Dawn,
Right now I am figuratively jumping up and down and saying YES! YES!! Once again, you know exactly how it is! You may remember that I am dealing with one node relationship, and am probably going to embark on another (but in a different capacity) in a very few weeks at most. Well, maybe I already have in an informal way and it will just get intense. The one I have feels like the ONE, even though recently experience has shown that my feelings are not necessarily in line with objective reality. But that shared appreciation piece (Venus, Sun, and Mercury conjunct the south node) is very real, and the ease with which we communicate, even now after all we’ve been through, is very seductive because it does feel safe, it does feel secure, it does feel like “all is right with the world”. the average person wants to keep that feeling. We also have a vertex/anti-vertex opposition, and I think that describes the spiritual messages and dreams I started having after we started acknowledging our attraction for each other. Those dreams led me to my current spiritual situation and the man who heads it.
If I could design a man with the type of intellectual/spiritual background I found ideal, it would be this man. I love to hear him talk. I love to hear him teach. But I am not interested in him on a physical level. We have a double Saturn/NN conjunction. Initially I was apprehensive about this, but I feel better after reading this piece.
Thanks for being on the money yet again
pam
My boyfriend’s Jupiter is on my North Node in Libra, and his Sun is widely conjunct my South Node in Aries. I think the Jupiter in particular has really helped me with my lifelong struggles with relationships (NN ruler Venus conjunct Pluto), especially in the first year when that Jupiterian generosity would always entice me towards relationship whenever I was ready to bolt. My Saturn is on his South Node, though. I don’t know how that feels to him or how I can mitigate any bad effects there. Any thoughts on Saturn conjunct SN in synastry?
As always, I’m not going to give you an easy answer, I’m going to make you work a bit for it. Saturn can be about repression and control, but it can also mean care and responsibility. The only way to discern the meaning of Saturn on the SN is to look at the way your Saturn functions with his chart. That will tell you the details. If Saturn was square or opposite Sun or Moon, you may have been a repressive (but molding) force–but if Saturn also makes some good aspects, especially to inner planets, the relationship was less contentious. It’s not just the one aspect, but all of the aspects, that will reveal the story.
Ah. Well, it makes a sextile to his Jupiter and Chiron, but is the finger of a yod inconjunct both his Venus and his Saturn and also opposes (about 5 degrees wide) his Uranus. Maybe it was a bit difficult? Otherwise, synastry is overall pretty nice, and as I said my nodes are nicely aspected!
Btw, our nodal axes are almost exactly sextile each other by degree, my NN 3rd house Libra and his NN 5th house Gemini.
Great article and series, I’ve learned so much! Thank you. My Neptune is exactly conj. the SN of someone I have a very fated-feeling friendship/mentorship with. How would that affect the SN person? He activates all my Neptune issues, positive and negative, and sometimes it’s been very um… destabilizing, I guess, and I’m trying to bring it back to earth a bit, but what does that mean for the SN person?
It would be impossible to determine the effect of someone’s Neptune falling on another’s South Node without taking into consideration the house, sign, and nodal ruler involved. Also, what is his own relationship to the Neptune elements in his chart? Remember that the Nodes tell us a story, and the planets that come conjunct to the Nodes are players in that story. But without full info, and a look at the whole chart, we can’t tell what the story might be.
Actually, your answer to Leslee above was I was looking for, but I didn’t notice it at first. Sorry. Will look at the charts in those terms (regarding Neptune, obviously, and considering his chart), thanks so much.
Great article Dawn.
Two questions:
In terms of nodal cycles what happens when one’s own or another’s progressed moon conjuncts the north node?
Secondly I’ve been reading Yesterday’s Sky by Steven Forrest who suggests that because the south node holds the unresolved karma we bring into this life to work with, we need to interpret it with a negative slant, ie the lower expression of that aspect. Would you agree and does that mean that a person whose planets aspect the south node would activate or represent the darker energies from past lives?
Moon/Node, whether progressed or otherwise, is a very intimate conjunction. The nodal person will feel the entire psyche of the other drawing them forward. It can feel very mysterious, very compelling for the time of the conjunction (the progressed moon only moves about 1 degree per month, so we’re talking about a limited amount of time–perhaps a couple of months applying and a couple of months separating.) The progressed Moon is a notorious trigger–initiating things not only in their own charts, but in the charts of others–so it is likely that the Moon person will stimulate the Node person’s new orientation to the North Node. Whether they are comfortable with that is another story entirely–often we’re dragged, kicking and screaming, to our North Nodes.
On the whole, because they do hold unresolved karma (though they aren’t the only indicators), the negative elements of the SN are easier to grasp hold of. People often manifest the lesser qualities of the SN very visibly. But the South Node often indicates great gifts. For example, you have dozens of examples of people with the SN in Sag going overboard with indulgences and excess (a la Charlie Sheen, Robert Downey Jr., etc.) but on the other hand these people often have great luck and inner resilience that allows them to get back on their feet under circumstances that would crush an average person. Yes, they have to work out their issues in the SN, but there is usually a big dollop of good to help out.
What about a vertex/north node conjunction in synastry?
Vertex/North Node conjunctions can be complicated–not in and of themselves, but when hit by transits and progressions. The Vertex person will be ready and anxious to experience the new influence, and the Node person may find it hard to cope with–we can be very resistant to our nodal pull. And yet the Vertex person will still embrace the experience (at least, at first). This can cause stress in the relationship, until the Node person realizes it is better for his or her own growth to let the Vertex person follow whatever unfolds.
I’ve always wondered these years as to why I attract a lot of Sagittarians. Beside generational influences, the people I’ve met either have the sun, moon or other inner planets in Sagittarius, making themselves comfy with my south node and Uranus in the 5th. There is one relationship I’ll never forget with a Sagittarius, despite having moved on. My south node fell in his 4th house where he had a stellium in Sagittarius and we didn’t experience a free spirited relationship,although we each were reluctant to make a legally binding committment. What’s funny is that I felt more like his mother than his girlfriend since he didn’t take care of himself like an adult; he was the typical party animal, drug addict and blunt, very blunt individual attached to not taking responsibility. I remember when we first met that he expressed to me his foretelling dreams. Usually when he dreamt about someone or a situation, it would appear in life. My dreams were similar, but about him. It was a very ethereal connection I suppose at first, where later, I couldn’t live in those dreams as the reality of who he was and still is was more potent.
We also had a Venus-Saturn conjunction sitting in my 4th house, so much of the tumultuous activity we experienced was at home. Especially since as a person he was without a sense of home and family and he always told me that I was like a safety net for him, that he never felt comfortable anywhere else except in my home. Intercepting his own 4th house was scorpio, with the moon and uranus here; he lost his mother at 21, his father re married and moved away and he himself was left without a home at that point. So constantly moving around, wanting to settle into a permanent home but not being able to materialize the situation is a constant struggle for him. With me, he felt roots. I think that’s why he talked about marriage, although I knew it was just words, more of a longing he didn’t understand. He has Saturn and Jupiter in Libra with a Leo asc, so I think his need to be with someone all of the time despite his untamed horse persona, coupled with his moon and venus in scorpio forces him to be a man by learning what it is to provide. Especially with his particular 4th house influence.
In any case, I found myself playing many different roles in our relationship and I learned a lot about who I am as a partner, not to mention how my childhood has played a negative influence in my relations with the opposite sex. With him, I experienced the full range of lower emotions: jealousy, rage, depression, unexplained desire, unhealthy sex (sex for its own sake, not a union). I had a huge hangover after that relationship, it was like getting drunk and then walking into the middle of a laughing hurricane. I suppose that last line had something to do with a heavy Neptune transit too. I had ATM, Help Center and Welcome written all over my forehead.
Do you think that nodal transits will be a major contributor to breaking off a south node connection? I remember when the eclipse season in Leo/Aquarius was in procession when him and I broke up, so hit major points in our natal charts. Saturn’s transit was in Virgo, in his first house and in my third.
Great article, I enjoyed it very much.
Hi Jeannne,
Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, transits to the Nodes may contribute to breaking off nodal connections, and so will hard aspects of the transiting Nodes to the natal Nodes. Those are stress times for the Nodes, and the transiting Nodes have a lot to say about the current climate. People don’t pay enough attention to them.
Hi,im a woman.and i’ve got a south node and vertex conjuction in my 8th house.is this a curse or luck for me and my relationships?thanks,
It’s certainly not a curse. It means that important relationships or situations related to your breaking old patterns of the way you share yourself with others will be prominent in your life. We give deeply of ourselves in the eighth house, and with the Vertex there we will attract whatever will illustrate what needs to be changed–they will reveal whatever is blocking our way towards sharing or they will reveal what we bring to the table of life, depending on the planet that transits or progresses, the aspect, and how it relates to the rest of the chart. Nothing happens in a vacuum–it all relates to the rest of the nodal ‘story.’
Thank you for your insights about vertex and the axis!
I have a relationship I never can figure out about and his vertex is exact my south node. My SN is conjuct my chiron and lillith as well.. I wonder how this might influence the relationship anthe two of us?
It’s difficult to comment without seeing the charts, and the condition of the nodal rulers. There is a sense of limitation and anger surrounding your South Node, and a possible karmic tie between the two of your surrounding this. Some kind of healing is necessary to move forward, and the process of healing might help him to see who he truly is.
Hi Dawn,
My boyfriend has NN in scorpio conjunct uranus in the 1st house (conjunct his ASC almost exactly). We have the same angles, so also conjunct my ASC. I just noticed that I have pluto and saturn in the late degrees of libra, and I was wondering how that might impact the configuartion, because I am thinking that with uranus and the 1st house influence in his chart, I might feel like a burden.
Also, he has sun square moon natally…my NN is square his sun (.09) but also conjunct his moon (1.13)…how does that play out?
I remember reading that NN connections are important in synastry, but what happens if it recieves a harsh aspect or is hit by a harsh plannet?
Hi Christine. These are complicated configurations and I can’t really comment in this space. However, we have to stop thinking of the Nodes as causal–they’re receptive, not causal. They aren’t planets. They’re points of consciousness that receive energy. Your Pluto and Saturn falling on your partner’s North Node will be a very heavy contact–but it could be just what he needs, if he doesn’t run away (Uranus). If his Sun is square your Nodes, he can be a guide to helping you integrate and balance your South and North Nodes, especially regarding the house his Sun occupies in your chart. All planets connected to the Nodes help us become more aware. The more complex planets are harder to deal with and maybe transformational, so we shouldn’t turn our back on them just because they are more challenging.
Hi, I’ve read this article with much interest and I’ve also read the MC/IC axis in synastry article with similar interest.
I was wondering how might one interpret an exact conjunction between the South node and North node of one chart to the IC and MC of another’s chart? The IC person has his sun conjunct this point (1 deg orb) in gemini opposed his MC conjunct neptune (3.5 deg). The second person has their South node conjunct the first person’s IC exact. So the first person’s sun also conjunct’s the second’s South node. I feel like this is a soul to soul contact, and was perhaps something for each to remind the other who they really are at a core level. Any thoughts on this?
(By the way, the first person also has a gemini south node and Sagittarius north node, this time square the second person’s sun. In addition the first person’s saturn conjuncts exactly the second person’s IC in Cancer – so I think father / family/ authority issues are significant here too. In addition the IC/MC axis of the two people are exactly semi sextile).
Thanks in advance for any responses.
I’m sorry, Michelle, but the specifics of this contact are too complicated for me to reply to in this space, and it would be irresponsible of me to do so. However, there is an article in the archives dealing with angle/node contacts, and you can find it here: https://theinnerwheel.com/2010/06/05/synastry-studies-when-angle-hits-axis/
I forgot to ask: Would the IC/MC person sense the presence of the south node / north node of the other person conjuncting this axis and vice versa? What if no planets (sun / neptune) were present at these points?
>> “The South Node contacts from another chart are a much easier and more secure ride, even if, ultimately, we have to shed them.” <<
Hello Dawn..
Have you never seen a relationship last which involved a person's South Node on other's Sun? Does it always end with "I got over you" and " you hinder me from going ahead" ?
A man I am in love with has his Saturn (0* aqua) – his NN ruler conjunct his own NN( Capri 28). My Sun-Chiron makes a conjunction in 0* Leo in my chart.
Must I keep something in my mind? I wanna make this work. I just want to know how to read this exact opposition as.Do I hinder his progress?
Thanks a lot for any insight..!He does contact my NN btw.
Or would it have less effect because my Sun is out of sign conjunct his SN.
But I mentioned it because I remember very well him telling me that he came to know a lot about me simply when we first met..n he still tells me that.
i was totally attracted to this person i met at work. and when he left his job i was totally depressed like i dont wanna work, i wanna move back home, switch career, etc..
our suns/mercury/venus are in opposition. my chiron in taurus conjuncting his sun/venus and his vertex/pluto conjuncting my sun/venus in scorpio.
this person had his pisces north node/midheaven conjunct my south node. that means my virgo north node/saturn conjuncts his south node/imum coeli as well.
he is one guy i will definitely miss and remember. wish we could cross paths again. this time i will really say “hi!”.
is that feeliing of attachment one-sided or felt by both parties, because we have nodal-angle contacts?
looking for explanation for nn conjunct bml (lilith) in synastry (cancer). mybe you can help me?
thanks.
I’m afraid that BML conjunct the NN is one of the more complicated aspects to analyze, due to the complexity of BML itself. First of all, the way BML expresses itself is split down sexual lines–different interpretations for men and women. And secondly, BML has a lot to do with early conditioning and developing sexual expression, so in essence the entire chart has to be analyzed before we know how BML would affect another chart. We may never have short or ‘cookbook’ answers for BML. The minute we try to pin her down, we diminish her.
Hi Dawn, I have a natal vertex/North node conjunction in my 6th house in Pisces. How do these energies combine? Does that mean fate will be a major factor in that area of my life?
Thx
For info this conjunction is sextile to the moon in the 9th and Mercury in the 4th. The orb for both sextiles is 0 degree (with NN).
It’s actually rather fortunate to have your Vertex and your Nodes conjunct–it means that the inevitable evolution of your consciousness will be helped by these unusual encounters, and should make it much easier for you to access and balance your nodes. A helping hand from the universe, in many ways.
Thanks!
I would like to understand the diffrent between vertex contacts and anti-vertex contacts.(anti-vertex conjunct moon?)
also want to ask is it only the vertex side feel the efect or both?
thank you so much!
Thanks Dawn ! I have indeed made very unusual encounters in my life. Whether they have helped me on the evolution of my consciousness I d have to say yes… but it sure didnt feel easy.
Then again I am a firm believer most valuable lessons in life are learnt the hard way….but that might be my Pluto conjunct asc square my sun talking here. 🙂
Anyways sincere thanks for taking the time to reply to me. This is one site I come back over and over with renewed interest and excitement.
hello Dawn ..
Like the Cafeastrology website ,do you also see the Saturn – node conjunction as a separative aspect? 🙁
Hi Keteki–what do you mean by separative? Do you mean that it causes people to separate?
First of all, it depends on whether we’re talking about the North or South Nodes. Secondly, it depends on what Saturn is doing in each of those individual charts. And third, it depends on what time of life we’re talking about. Sometimes Saturn does have a specific agenda where specific lessons need to be learned. If that’s the case, there is often separation once the lesson is over.
hi
I have a dilemma..
I get along well with guys about a couple years younger than me since their pluto trines to most of my personal planets that there is always a strong connection. Also, their juno often has aspects to my planets. However, when that happens, my north node conjuncts to their Jupiter and SATURN.., which means we don’t mean to be together for some reasons. Is there any way I can get over this SATURN karma??
You are most likely choosing Jupiter/Saturn relationships to guide you towards your North Node and its lessons. Your North Node traits need both to expand and to mature. The only way to come to terms with Saturn is to embrace him.
What does that mean when your vertex conjunct someone’s vertex?
Hi fantasy. The Vertex is a very esoteric point. It doesn’t carry much power on its own, except when stimulated by other factors. Two Vertices together may give a couple a sense that they understand the deep truth of one another, and this will be tested by the mutual transits and progressions to the Vertex in each chart.
>>Moon/Node, whether progressed or otherwise, is a very intimate conjunction. The nodal person will feel the entire psyche of the other drawing them forward. <<
My Sun and Moon are in fire signs but my node falls along Feminine signs- Can/Cap. I have never had/could have a close LONG term friendship with people having their Moon in Water or Earth signs because of obvious incompatibility..The sense of familiarity and 'we like similar things' isn't recognized in their company.
I seriously think people are lucky when their moon sign is in a compatible element to their nodal signs..so that when someone's moon forms a conjunction to the axis you get two for one ( how greedy am i ..!)
And since hard aspects are given more importance..perhaps one would have significant relationships (if they seek compatibility too) only with people with Moon squaring their nodal axis?(But then significance is measured by so many other things I am sure :-/)
Now for something personal : My Sister's moon in Libra exactly squares my node and I do feel she somehow has no sensitivity/respect for my inner life and where I come from (though that could be coz of other factors :-/ )
I am really curious how does a moon square node workout? Is it a rude aspect? Can there be intimacy in it? Is it a subtle "sign of something" when people have their sun-moon incompatible with their own nodes.?
Hi, Nobody–
You’ve hit on some very big topics here, but I think you are a bit mistaken about the Moon’s Nodes and its rulers. We all contain many contradictions within us–as the poet Walt Whitman once wrote, “I contain multitudes.” So there does not necessarily have to be agreement between the Moon and the Nodes, any more than it does between Sun/Moon, Sun/Ascendant, or the rulers of ends of the angles. The contrasts are what make us interesting.
You have hit on something crucial with the Moon aspecting the Nodes, however, and I will be writing about that in detail in the near future.
But I did not mention anything about the rulers?
I mentioned ‘Sun’ and ‘Moon’ because you said that the nodes ‘consist of the relationship of the sun and moon from the earth’
🙂
Curiosity: My previous soulmate’s north node is conjunct my ascendant and the relationship did not work out after six years and mostly due to his ex wife venus falling also on his north node.
My current soulmate’s north node and Sun is conjunct my DESCENDANT/neptune conjunction. Also, and maybe scary, my lilith conjuncts his descendant/jupiter/chiron conjunction and vice versa, his lilith conjuncts my chiron. Also, my vertex/mars conjunct his ascendant. And, lastly, my south node conjuncts his first house uranus. Is this the one? Thanks
Hi Jules. Is this the one. No. Is anyone ‘the one?’ No. I could no more tell whether this is a significant relationship for you by this truncated list of aspects (never mind ‘the one’) than you could tell me my cat’s name by looking at the sentence I just wrote here.
Astrology, no matter how good it is, has it’s limitations, and one of them is not being able to determine what is or is not a potential long term relationship. We can see intense attractions, we can see intense bonding and deep psychological interplay. We can even see why someone is in our lives from a spiritual point of view. But whether the relationship is for six, sixteen or sixty years we never know. (There are progressed techniques which can give you a range of relationship, but that is a delicate business.) All of this angle/node/vertex action between you indicates attraction, but how long that lasts is another matter. You need something more than this, something softer, something more stable, to weather the storms.
You would find it a lot more helpful to focus on your own Desc/Neptune conjunction. It expects ideals in relationship that are unrealistic. It is prone to fantasy, excuses and self-deception. It is also prone to secrecy and victimization. Sort out what is real from what is fantasy and projection. Try to deal with partnerships in a more realistic, less enchanted light. Then you will be able to work within a mature and equal partnership that will last the test of time (Saturn).
Hi!
in the moment I feel my heart pulled/stretched among two karmic relationships: I have tight “angle contacts” with one man (my Vertex Axis mirrors his Vertex Axis, my AC/DC mirrors his AC/DC (0°49) and my sun squares his NN in the 7th house (0°23) and I have tight NN contacts with another men (both his sun and moon oppose my NN, conjuncting thus the SN, my venus conjuncts his NN and my jupiter sextils it).
The man I described first is someone I know for a very long time – we were long together, but are not a couple anymore since two years. It seems however impossible for me to really detach myself from him – we are no longer together, but I still have a friendship with him and yes, deep feelings. The relationship is not that difficult as it used to be, but sometimes still painful, although we are now friends.
The second man I described, is my boyfriend: the relationship brings me a lot of comfort and we understand each other really well. There is a much “lighter” atmosphere is a number of ways. I sure have feelings for him, but I don’t seem to be able to get deeper, because the strong connection with the first one remains.
I have been thinking about letting go of this beautiful relationship I have now, because I feel somehow dishonest, for still holding feelings for the other one. In my experience, the AC/DC and Vx/Anti-Vx seem stronger than NN contacts…
I would be very thankful to hear something about this, if you feel like saying something.
Contacts to the South Node are no guarantee of longevity. Usually, the Node person has something to work out regarding the planet person, or the planet person is very important for a time and then the relationship moves on.
There is no guarantee of longevity with axis contacts, either, but what we remember is the deep resonance of having the angles touched; it is intimate and fulfilling in a very deep way, we feel that we are really known. However, this isn’t enough to sustain a relationship, and if you still have feelings for the other person it isn’t because of the angles, but something else between your charts. You’ll have to discover what that is, and why it is still haunting you.
This is a short video that has helped me understand how to calculate the position of the Vertex by showing how to find the Prime Vertical, whose 2 meeting points with the ecliptic will mark the Vertex in the western and anti-Vertex in the eastern parts in a chart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mcek1lvsV8
Dawn, thank You so kindly for bringing in more clarity. The touch of angles feel exactly as you described. But then, as you mentioned, this alone is not bringing commitment. We seem to have been unable to commit throughout the years, but then we can’t let it go either. I am really willing to understand what is going on.
While reading some of your articles today, I tried to check the information I was learning in the charts. I found his Saturn falling in my 2nd house while my saturn falls in his 8th house (my saturn square his neptun, I feel this is a dominant aspect between us – I have this aspect in my natal as well). Then I found both his north node and Jupiter falling in my 1st house, while I myself have north node and Jupiter in the first, and my jupiter falling in his 7th, while he has his Jupiter there. Then I saw my moon (in 7th house) falling in his 1st house, where he has an empty field (my moon squares his mercury). Do you think I might be in the right track looking it here?
I recently met a man whose VERTEX axis SQUARE my NODE axis within minutes. Comparing his story and mine with regards to past relationships..it is strangely similar….all pointing to transits.
In summer 1994, when, Saturn crossed his vertex (squaring my node), we both embarked on serious relationships under subtly coerced conditions.
In summer 2009 (15 years later) when Saturn transited opposite that point, we both seperated from our spouses unexpectedly.
In autumn 2012 when, Jupiter transited over my nodes squaring his vertex, we met for the first time.
In a few weeks days from now, jupiter will retrack that point again (due to Rx), while saturn will transit our composite Sun, let us see what happens!!!
Hello,
would you say it is something good or bad for a woman to have in her natal chart Lilith conjunct Selena ( in Gemini , 12th) ? It seems so a paradoxal conjunction , and I can’t find any interpretation of this natal aspect I have got.
I know you can not interpret things like that , without having seen the whole chart, but I would like so much to understand the meaning of this aspect… Because this point is very involved in a synastry: my lilith/selene conjuncts the IC and NN of the guy, and opposite his Juno , while his Selene opposites my Juno too (so,Selena opposite Juno double whammy)
Knowing that moreover his Lilith conjuncts my DEC, there is really a big lilith business I don’t understand at all …
I hope you will give me some little “clues” , just to understand a little-little better !
I don’t understand my Lilith/Selena Gemini at all, but I “feel” she has an important role indeed.
I hope this is not something too negatively fated , because I’m to meet this person in 6 weeks, after years and years of waiting the moment when it would occur again. I’m very very afraid, almost paralysed with fear.
I haven’t done enough work on Selena to make an educated comment. I generally research a topic for five years before I write about it. Sorry.
Dear Dawn,
If my friend has Aquarius Ascendant and Pisces Moon, would their Uranus-Neptune conjunction on my north Node have more of a personal impact than from people’s charts who do not have sun, Moon or Asc in the signs ruled by transpersonal planets?
I have seen a lot of synastry in important relationships where the Sun of one person is on the same sign as the NN-ruler of the other person. Does Moon or Asc conjunct the NNruler bring the same energy in synastry?
Let’s put it this way–that Uranus/Neptune conjunction would have more personal importance for them, therefore it would translate to more personal importance for you. Sun, Moon and Ascendant conjunctions to the North Node are amongst the strongest two people can have. Most of the time, the Sun, Moon or Asc person will act as a guide for the Node person. However, the North Node is not always a blissful place–sometimes these people can guide us in the wrong direction, sometimes not. It is almost as important to have the Sun, Moon or Asc conjunct the North Node ruler, with the same results. If our North Node ruler is misguiding us, those people can encourage the ‘wrong’ behaviour patterns. For example, if I have my North Node in Pisces, and one of my ‘wrong turns’ is to get involved with drugs or alcohol rather than take the compassionate higher ground, someone with Sun, Moon or Asc on my NN or Neptune may encourage that, rather than help us take the spiritual path. The path of the NN isn’t always clear cut.
Thank you Dawn,
I come to this article by searching the vertex in synastry but you have clarify the Nodes contacts for me also. I always wonder what is the impact between the Nodes of the Moon and the Sun/Moon midpoint in synastry. The Sun/Moon midpoint is the marriage between the yin and yang of the natal chart. I figure it would have a great impact in the people involved, a soulful, emotional and physical union. But I’m not sure. How can two points interact with each other, and would the impact be felt like when a planet aspects the Nodes, what do you think?
The real impact of this contact would happen when any transiting (or progressed planet in either chart) hit that point, or to a lesser extent the point opposite or square. Points can make an impact on points (think of BML, which is a point in the Moon’s orbit) but because the Nodes are about the interaction of the Sun and Moon, having them contact the Soli-lunar midpoint in a chart would make them a highly sensitive and receptive point. Everything that touched the point would be magnified, perhaps to an uncomfortable extent. The person whose midpoint it is would be highly effected by and sensitive to the Nodal energy (whether South or North) of the other person. The Nodal person would feel drawn to the midpoint person, but if this is a South Node contact it may not be the best thing.
Hi Dawn.
I’ve never studied the Vertex before, and found this article when I discovered that my Pr Venus and Pr Vertex are now conjunct (1 deg orb) and will remain so for then next several years. And, actually, they both just passed over my Sun/Moon. What would you say about the contact of these two within one’s progressed chart?
Similarly, how might the solar arc of one’s Moon conjunct his natal Vertex manifest?
The Vertex by progression is one of our stronger ‘triggers’ or astrological markers that ignite other aspects within the progressed chart. You have just been through a very Venusian period which may or may not have brought partnership to your life and may or may not have altered your value system or your tastes in some way. Issues of self-esteem would have been strong. All this, of course, depends on the position and strength of Venus in the natal chart.
I don’t find Solar Arc measurements effective so I don’t work with them.
Thank you, Dawn. This is fascinating.
Now that you mention it, Venus is a biggie in my chart. It is the chart ruler and final dispositor. I have Libra rising with a Taurus Venus in the 7th, conjunct Mercury (dispositor of my 8th house Gem Sun. Venus rules my 8th), and square Mars (ruler of the 7th).
While Pr. Vertex and Pr Venus individually crossed over my Sun/Moon, I met someone but did not become aware of the enormous tug toward him until the exact hits passed. The awareness came after the eclipses in April hit my Dec/Asc axis and natal Venus, the station of Mars on my Uranus (ruler of 5th), the transit of Venus over my Dec, the transit of Pluto trine my Venus, etc. There is a whole lot of other astrological “stuff” going on and into the next few years that reinforces the picture, the potential. But I never knew to look at the Vertex. Its involvement with Venus by progression makes this ever more interesting.
So, considering the strength of my Venus, would this progressed contact hold a lot of weight? They will be conjunct within orb for the next 7 years. They are about a degree apart now. Pr. Venus will make the exact hit to Pr. Vtx 3 years from now.
Much appreciation for your insights!
Yes, this progression holds a lot of weight. It will be the most effective when Venus is either exact or just past the Progressed Vertex, but honestly anything can happen with a long term progression like this one. Look for periods when transiting Venus, the progressed Moon, or transiting Sun or Mars makes hard aspects to it. It can be a period of great benefits, both spiritual and material.
Something to look forward to! I will chart these periods, as you mentioned. I can’t wait to see how it manifests.
Thank you for commenting!
So, I checked when the progressed Moon would contact the Pr Ven-Vtx by hard aspect, and, what seems amazingly, it occurs just as Venus makes the exact conjunction to the Vertex. Pr Moon at 9Ari3 meets Pr Ven at 9Can3, which meets Pr Vtx at 9Can4 three days later. AND Uranus, natal and progressed, is at 9Lib.
As backdrop for significance….
Uranus in Libra 12th:
Ruler of 5th
Dispositor of Mars, ruler of 7th.
In grand trine with same Mars and the Gem Sun in 8th.
Itself disposited by Ven, chart ruler and final dispositor, located in 7th.
Ven in 7th conjunct Mer, dispositor of Sun, ruler of 12th & 9th.
Pr Ven-Vtx occurs in natal 9th, progressed 8th.
The natal 7th Ven-Mer squares Mars, house ruler, in 4th.
Wow. I can’t imagine, then, that this one will pass unnoticed or without event.
So one of the guys that impacted me most, my venus and mars conjuncts his NN and his wheel of fortune my NN. I don’t understand why he is so important for me though and not so much for him.
Hi wondered if you could help me but my sun is aries and there NN is aries his sun is sagittarius and my south node is saggitarius can anyone tell me what this means? Also my asc is in sag are we compatible? Thanks
You can’t tell from these few positions. The full synastry is needed.
Hi Dawn,
Thank you for your insightful and articulate posts.
I am wondering if you could talk a little more about the vertex or anit-vertex conjuncting/opposing the AC/DC in synastry please?
Would the intensity of this aspect be increased if there is also North Node Ascendant contact?
Thank You
Let’s put it this way. The angles are about self-definition. The Vertex is about spiritual self-definition. The Nodes are about the evolution of consciousness, which is a different thing entirely. I think, from what I’ve already written, that you can figure out the impact one would have on the other.
“The Vertex is about spiritual self-definition.” So very true!
When a lunar eclipse conjuncted my vertex, i found myself resident at a spiritual retreat center.
great article thank you for this! i met my twin flame this past year…heavens he’s making me crazy–in a good way! : ) his Venus is conjunct my Vertex (and North node loosely), his Psyche is conjunct my vertex. Whooooa. our birthdays are both 8/8. talk about discovering ourSelves! it is a universe-altering connection indeed; we are the male and female versions of each other. i feel like i didn’t even know or understand myself before i met him.
this connection has been particularly helpful when it comes to facing down the illusions of my ego. with him i get to look nakedly at my own flaws and realize that just as i love and accept him and his craziness, i love myself just the way i am, and just as much. truly a blessing.
his Saturn on my Mars is certainly the most frustrating part of the connection, and ironically the most benevolent as it’s giving us the time to get our lives together as individuals and allow the energy to unfold piece by piece. otherwise I think we would have imploded by now. neither of us have ever been so responsible and measured when it comes to romance. so here i am, patiently waiting for true love to win the day…ms. ruth
my vertex/Saturn/NN/and Lilith are all cascading to my descendant! His Venus is conjunct the Vertex just inside my 7th house stellium. Ay yay yay!
Hi , Thankyou for your writing Dawn, very useful.
My vertex is conjunct my natal moon at 11 and 9 Gemini in the 8th house. This means Saturn is currently transiting the anti vertex in second. I feel like I am having to reconsider and reshape what I value and want in my life..do you have other comments about natal moon conjunct vertex?
Incidents from the past/karmic incidents or people re-entering your life will cause you to re-evaluate who you really are, at a core level. Learning to live your truth is essential.
Thank you for this insight into Vertex and synastry. There is very little high quality information available on this on the net, and Im glad I stumbled across your site.
His vertex conjunctions my South Node, (which I guess means his anti-vertex conjunctions my North node). How would this play out?
Or better still – what advice would you have for the Moon node owner of this synastry conjunction? 😛
The Vertex is not quite as simple an energy as an angle. Angles are very specific in their action/energy; the Vertex is much more Venusian, drawing things toward it, rather than affecting them. Less Martian than the ordinary Ascendant. The best I can explain, without seeing the whole interaction, is that the spiritual growth and unfolding of the Nodes person would affect the Vertex person and help them understand their deepest sense of ‘I.’ The instances drawn by the Vertex person would affect the Nodal growth of the other. You have to pay attention to the interaction between the Nodal rulers and the axis rulers of the Vertex.
Hi Dawn,
Thank you so much for this article. I learned a lot. Could you cover the Nodes in a composite chart? How is it different than in an individual’s chart?
Thank you!
In order to cover the Nodes in a composite chart, I would have to do a series, and I’m afraid I don’t have time for that right now. But the difference between this and a natal chart is easy to explain. People come together for a reason. The Nodes tell us why this is necessary, and what needs to be done. They look at the relationship from the point of view of karma and growth. Where have we come from as a couple, and where are we going? All partnerships have a purpose, a task to complete, no matter how small.
Hi Dawn I have 2 questions:
1.) Have you used antiscia in synastry. A close friend of mine and I have all Sun/Moon/Asc on antiscia of other’s Dsc/Moon/Sun.
I think it might be significant in the sense you can always count on using the other’s planet as a reference for where you stand. It’s like the 2 planets are like a boomerang- you can travel all the way around the world but when you come back to each other, you are gain back to zero. Pluses and minuses worked out.
2.) I have found through synastry that the Lights(Sun or Moon) conjunct the nodal rulers seem to point to a significant bond. How does the opposition work ? I thought since they are lights, the opposition may not count the same way as between two bodies.
I’m afraid I don’t use antiscia. I experimented with it for a while, and it just seemed like so much more astro-dust. Interesting, but not necessary. If you like it, have fun with it.
As for 2) it depends. I’m not sure what you’re asking. One person’s Sun/Moon opposition hitting another’s Nodes? One’s NN ruler opposing the SN ruler? Please clarify.
One’s NN ruler opposing other’s Sun or Moon.
Hi Dawn,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Quick question,
Is it also fortunate to have your natal south node conjunct natal vertex? Not feeling like I was very fortunate in love at all. Vertex in H7 (13.22 degrees) on cusp with south node in H8 (14.14)
Almost exact.
Just wondering if the good luck applies to North node conjunct vertex only.
Thanks !
Remember that the Vertex is not solely about love or relationships, but it is about personal truth. Whether or not the South Node is positive on the Vertex is dependent on the condition of the South Node and its ruler. It is likely that there is work to do there, and one will not be able to avoid it in this life.
No, all it means is that the South Node is emphasized in your growth. You have to conquer the South Node before you approach the North. Relationships may affect the North Node more than you realize, particularly with people for whom you feel intensely, or for whom you are/feel responsible.
Thanks Dawn, how do you find out the ruler of the South Node. If the South Node is in Leo in the 7th House – does that make the ruler of the South Node the Sun. The Sun is in the 8th conjunct Venus. So should I look at the condition of the Sun and all the squares? Thanks again !
Yes and yes.
Hi Dawn, thank you for this page and for sharing all your wonderful knowledge.
i’ve recently connected with a guy who’s north node makes an exact conjunction to my vertex in Taurus, my 5th house, and his 3rd house. please could you share your insight on this connection? His Juno in the 8th house also exactly conjuncts my MC. looking forward yo your response xxx
Thank you 🙂
Is there any significance in synastry where the NN aspects are completely one-sided (one person has planetary aspects to the other’s NN, but no reciprocal planetary aspects to their own NN)?
A synastry is what it is, and there are more than the nodes at stake. We all don’t play a part in the consciousness-elevation of others, and still the relationship can be a profound one.
Plain and simple–the person who has the NN stimulated will be pushed to evolve. The other person will be the catalyst for that evolution. Don’t forget that anything stimulating the NN is also stimulating the SN–karma is likely to be involved. Someone owes something in the relationship. Look at Saturn for clues.
Yes. I see. Thank you for both answer and clarification. It answers a great many questions that synastry between us has posed (You are 110% correct on why most people learn synastry :D)
If you have any interest in this, I would be happy to relate the story as I see it to you.
Hi Dawn
I hope this is a relatively simple question. If in a synastric chart you have 2 individuals who have the following aspects:
His North Node (in Virgo 8th house natally) opposite her North Node (in Aries 4th house natally)
His North Node also opposite her Chiron (she has her North Node & Chiron conjunct in 4th house Aries natally)
His North Node sextile her ascendant (Sagittarius)
His ascendant (Capricorn) opposes her Vertex (in 7th house Cancer natally) (I guess this is also a way of saying his descendant conjuncts her vertex? Or his ascendant conjuncts her anti-vertex?)
His Vertex (in Leo 7th house natally) is square her ascendant (Sagittarius)
His Chiron (in Aquarius 1st house) biquintile her Vertex (in 7th house Cancer natally)
His Vertex (in Leo 7th house natally) biquintile her North Node (in Aries 4th house natally)
FYI all of these synastric aspects fall within an orb of 5 degrees (not sure how helpful that info is)?
Can you speak generally to some of the themes / issues that might manifest in their relationship (about the Nodes, the Vertex, the Ascendant/Descendant axis and Chiron).
I am struck by the North Node of each being conjunct the South Node of the other, the mutual/reciprocal? (not sure of the right terminology) Ascendant Vertex aspects, and how both Chirons make aspects to this whole complex of axes.
Thanks very much.
I’m sorry, I don’t interpret lists of aspects. The whole chart needs to be taken under consideration.
Hi Dawn,
If there is a situation where the girl’s Saturn conjuncts the boy’s South Node in Cap, 12th house.. while making only hard aspects to his planets (square to Mercury in his 8th, square to Jupiter/Pluto in his 9th + wide square (orb 8) to Saturn in his 8th).. then what kind of a feeling do you get of their past life involvement/this life purpose together?
Kind regards,
Have just started looking at the Vertex with N.Node – my progressed Vertex conjuncts his natal N.Node, his progressed N.Node conjuncts my natal Vertex.
His progressed Vertex conjuncts my Sun and progressed ASC conjuncts my DEC – all aspects are within 1 degree orb.
Can you please help me get my head around these aspects as we go way back?
I’ve been doing research for a few years on the aspect of Vertex exactly conjunct Anti-Vertex (in synastry) and didn’t find anything significant. Can you emphasize on this subject?
I found this in relationships of close friends or very romantic-intimate ones. Until now I met 2 pairs and their connection lasts for more than 10 years. Usually the other one drops out of heaven or fate brings them together in unusual circumstances across the span of the years, insisting for sort of a relationship, if they don’t play it right from the beginning. Another thing I noticed is that they seem to be alike and unitary – if you meet one, you ‘have met the other one’ also. Also, both have gone through the same experience and they are very telepathic and affectionate. Maybe this feeling of oneness is also the effect of a packed 12 +1+5 composite houses and a davidson packed 7 house, with neptune in the 12th.
Could you please help with a meaning for this aspect?